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Recessed/Inverted Vulvas and Chronic Infections
Some female pups can be born with what is called a recessed or inverted vulva (RV), sometimes termed an “innie” or “tipped” vulva. Please see the pic above to compare to your pup.
This allows urine to pool in the valley around the vulva and the resulting bacteria can be the cause of chronic urinary tract infections (UTI) or bladder infections. This should not be confused with puppy vaginitis which will usually show in a slight mucousy discharge. Vaginitis is not a bacteria or infection but is something that its best to wait for first heat cycle as maturity/puberty will often put a stop to it. Just wiping the vulva with warm water and cotton is the best you can do until it clears up. Antibiotic will not help vaginitis. See this link:
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/vaginitis_puppy_acne_demodectic_mange.htm
If you suspect your new puppy has a RV there are holistic ways of preventing infection. It is also very important that this pup is not spayed until she has her first heat cycle because most times the vulva will correct itself as a result of that heat cycle. If you spay prior to the first heat you could be subjecting the pup to a lifetime of infections. Be sure and ask your vet if they have ever dealt with this as there are vets who have never seen a case and would not know what they are looking at. If that is the case please seek out another vet so you are not advised to spay your pup prior to first heat.
For those afraid to wait to spay because they have read about cancer and infections, please see this link. The risk starts to go up after age 2.5 and most dogs will have a first heat by 1 year, although some will go a bit beyond that.
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf
A reputable breeder will inform a buyer of a RV and instruct on holistic treatment to prevent infections. As a breeder I write a letter to the buyer’s vet informing them of the RV and the need to allow first heat cycle and that this time frame for spay is in my contract with buyer. This helps prevent a vet from pushing a spay prior to first heat cycle.The first time I had ever seen this condition was with a pup I had purchased from another breeder who chose not to inform me of it. My vet diagnosed it and unfortunately, since the breeder had ignored the condition, pup had a very severe infection that took over 6 months and in excess of $600. to get rid of. The breeder was aware of the condition and admitted it to me after I had it diagnosed. Thankfully my pups RV corrected on her first heat cycle.
For the health of my pups I would never consider withholding this condition, or any other condition for that matter, from a potential puppy buyer. I instruct my pup buyers to take a urine sample to the vet at their 72 hour vet check and if pup has an infection I will pay for the first round of antibiotics if they are necessary. Buyer must then be diligent in following my holistic instructions below. Because of what I went thru with my pup I now know how to handle this and it is really a non issue because I start holistic treatment immediately to prevent infections.
I have had 2 pups from one of my own litters with RV and started them on 700 mg of cranberry capsules daily at 6 weeks of age. This should continue “every day” until pup has her first heat and vulva corrects. The cranberry adheres to the bladder wall preventing bacteria from sticking and causing infections. I also recommend checking urine PH weekly at home. Normal PH is 5.5 - 7. If PH is elevated double up on crancaps (a.m. and p.m.) for a week (or two if necessary) and recheck PH. Once PH is in normal range drop back to single dose. If it remains elevated for two weeks take a urine sample to the vet to be checked as antibiotics may be necessary if it is a severe enough infection.
Collect urine first thing in the morning before and food or water and in mid stream for best sample. I use a tuperware lid. Put in a small tuperware container or jar and take to the vet. When testing PH at home just dip a strip in the urine and compare the strip to the chart on the box while the strip is still wet.
Here is a link to purchasing the PH strips. Don’t panic when you see the price - it is for 6 boxes. Contact the company by phone and you can purchase 1 or 2 boxes at a time. This is cheaper than ordering thru your pharmacy. Be sure and order the 5-10 PH range strips listed on this page. If you have a problem (as someone recently did) with ordering one box or a minimum credit card order tell them I referred you and about this blog and they will fill your order.http://mbcoct.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=mbcoct&Product_Code=32156-0010&Category_Code=
If you do have elevated PH you can also give live organism probiotics to put good bacteria in the system that will also aid in warding off infection. I give a 10 billion organism at 1/8 tspn daily for 8 week old pup. I prefer a live organism that must be refrigerated as opposed to a pill form. If you need to give antibiotics it is also advised to give the probiotics 2-3 hours after each dose of med and to continue for at least a few weeks with probiotics after meds are finished. Amount of weeks to continue would depend on dosage and length of time on antibiotics. Antibiotics kill off good bacteria along with the bad so it is important to replace this good bacteria with the probiotics.In some cases, where pups are getting infections, wiping the vulva after each urination with unscented baby wipes can help. You can purchase crancaps or probiotics at most health food stores or you can go to www.progressivelabs.com item #498 and #963. If you prefer to order on the phone go to extension 150 for Kathy Dragna. She is the rep I deal with and knows these products well. Please be sure to tell her that I referred you.
Note: The Crancaps have been changed/improved. They are now a “fruit” concentrate rather than a “juice” concentrate. And they are concentrated at 12:1. The softgels are now 420mg ea. Therefore, I would give 2/day (split up in a.m. and p.m. meal) for maintenance and give 4/day (split up in a.m. and p.m.) when PH is elevated or you have a UTI and are using the Crancaps in lieu of antibiotics. If you are seeing PH in normal range consistantly you can try cutting down to one capsule daily for maintenance. Keep checking PH to be sure this amount will be sufficient.
Note: Progressive’s crancaps contain soy. If your dog has an allergy to soy or you suspect it; see this GNC product instead: http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2182679 (2 capsules = 1000mg).
Note: 3/9/10: I have been having success with using only one of the Progressive 420mg crancaps for maintenance and using 2 when PH is elevated. It will depend on the severity of your dogs UTIs or how often they occur as to whether you will use 1 for maintenance or 2. The dog will flush out what the body does not use.
In the case of my two pups neither has ever had an infection because the above regime was followed by the buyer and both pups corrected on their first heat cycle. I have had adult dogs urine test positive at the vet for a UTI and have gotten rid of it by giving the crancaps twice daily for 2 weeks and having urine tested again. If the infection had not cleared up I would have considered antibiotics depending on the severity of the infection. I choose to take the holistic approach whenever possible as antibiotics can reak havoc on the system. As always you should consult your vet and I prefer to deal with a vet that will not poo poo the holistic approach even if they choose not to prescribe it to their patients.
If you find yourself in the unfortunate situation as I did with the pup I purchased from the breeder and you can not get rid of a severe infection with antibiotics it is important to do a culture and sensitivity at the laboratory to pin point the exact type of bacteria so the proper type of antibiotics and dosage can be given. It is best to get the urine sample for this c/s test thru what is called a cystosentisis which is urine drawn from the bladder via needle for the purest sample possible. This is not painful to the dog but the dog must have a full bladder so it is important to have the first appointment of the morning at the vet. Get up get the dog in the car (not allowing them to squat outside) and go.
I am not a veterinarian so I do advise having your pups urine tested at your vet the first time you suspect an infection and then make an informed decision as to the treatment you want to use. But remember, constantly using antibiotics can be detrimental to the long term health/immunity of your pup.
Vulvoplasty/Nip N Tuck: this is plastic surgery that a lot of vets will recommend to correct a RV on a dog that has already been spayed. Some will even recommend it prior to spay or at same time as spay because they do not know that a heat cycle can correct the RV. What bothers me are the vets that spayed a dog with RV prior to first heat (because they don’t know what a RV looks like), and than later when dog is having UTI issues they suddenly diagnose the RV and recommend the surgery.
I don’t recommend this surgery unless you have a dog that has been spayed and you can not keep UTI free with my method. You can not keep a dog on antibiotics for life - therefore, the surgery would be best. My first step would be the holistic approach and if it works than keep the dog on it for life to prevent UTIs.
If you have to go with the surgery please be sure to use a vet that is seasoned in this procedure. Ask your vet how many they have performed and what the success rate of keeping the dogs UTI free was. If your vet has never preformed this surgery please find one that has experience.
If anyone has a pup with a recessed vulva and you have further questions please feel free to ask here or contact me thru my web site.
I have a female lab that has a recessed vulva. She will be 6 in March and I just found this out today (after she peed on the floor) when I took her to the vet. She was spayed when she was a puppy and nothing was ever said to me about her condition. Now I feel horrible. She is on antibiotics currently. Do you have any suggestions? I am fortunate that she has never had a problem before today. I am planning on purchasing baby wipes and the cran caps for future use but was wondering if you have any further ideas on how to prevent her from being miserable (and peeing on the floor) in the future.
January 4th, 2008 at 7:18 pmDon’t panic. The fact that your girl has had no issues until now (at 6 yrs of age) tells me that her RV has not been a problem nor is the cause of her recent infection.
Do as I say above with cran caps, etc. THey can only help not hurt in any way.
I would also put her on a probiotic to counter act the antibiotic as I mention above.
If you want to talk further please email me via my web site or call me on the phone via my web site.
I will be around tomorrow until around 3:00 via phone. And again Sun. from around 12:00 till 1:00.
Sorry, busy with looking at stud dogs for an upcoming breeding and going to puppy evaluations. If you leave a message I will be sure to call you back. Just leave details.
www.snowcolabradors.com
January 4th, 2008 at 7:37 pmSorry my reply came up anonymous. I must have missed something.
Anyway its Patty- Snowco Labradors responding to you.
January 4th, 2008 at 7:39 pmHello Patty! I love your holistic approach! We are looking at a Doberman puppy who will be 7 weeks old on Monday. I went to meet her last night and noticed she has an inverted vulva. The breeder hadn’t noticed it until now as well. From what I understand the UTI’s are the only drawback; is this correct? In your professional opinion, should I go foward with the puchase or shy away from the pup? There is a second female I could ask about, but she is a little more reserved.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:48 amThanks for your help!
Christina
I would not hesitate to purchase a pup with RV.
Follow my instructions above and you should be fine.
Be sure not to let your vet spay until after first heat.
Good luck
January 23rd, 2008 at 10:29 amMy 11 week old choc lab has been diagnosed with a recessed vulva. I have had two different Vets check her out because of the chronic reoccuring uti. One vet recommended letting her go through her first heat with hope that it would correct itself. The other also suggested this but said that they could do an episiotomy when they spay her to correct the problem. My breeder never made mention of this condition and I have never heard of it before. She is currently on antibiotics- what do you recommend?
February 23rd, 2008 at 6:03 pmI would recommend you let her go thru her first heat. It will most likely correct itself.
As for the recurring UTIs be sure and check urine about 3 days after you finish antibiotics to be sure infection is gone and get her on the regime I talk about in my blog with crancaps etc.
If the meds are not curing the infection you need to have your vet do a urine culture and sensitivity in order to pinpoint the exact bacteria so the proper meds can be given. A cystosentisis is best way to collect a pure urine sample. Talk with your vet about this. Be sure and get first appointment of the morning as she needs to have a full bladder to get the urine sample.
If you have more questions let me know.
February 25th, 2008 at 10:12 amJust got a 8 week old choc. lab that has a rv.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:20 pmthe breeders told me the vet said it would go away after her 1st heat.However the pup squats to urinate very often and nothing comes out ,but she keeps squating continously, like she trying to pee all the time. Even if she does urinated the first time. Is this normal for a pup with a rv? thank you, Bob
Hi Bob,
Your pup is indicating the possibility of a urinary tract infection. Pups
with RVs can be prone to UTIs.
I would take a urine sample to the vet to be checked. Catch sample first
thing in the a.m. before food or water and in mid stream. Has you pup
been to your vet for an initial health check since bringing her home?
This is very important. The vet should also want a stool sample if they
have not seen your pup yet.
If there is an infection you may have to use antibiotics to get rid of it
but I would also put your pup on the crancaps mentioned in my blog and
keep her on them every day until she has her first heat, to avoid UTIs.
If she is going to be prone to UTIs (not always the case) I would also
purchase the PH strips I mention and check her PH weekly (catching urine
the same way) and follow instructions in my blog if PH is elevated.
The 2 pups in my last litter were on crancaps daily from age 6 weeks and
niether ever had an infection and both corrected on first heat.
Good luck. Don’t hesitate to contact me further if you have more questions.
Patty
May 12th, 2008 at 9:45 amwe have a 10 year golden that gets UTI’s often - she has been diagnosed with a recessed vulva and the vet is recommending surgery. my concern is 1 - her age 2 - no guarantee that is will in fact stop it from happening again - i recently read about cranvet tablets and how citrus juice helps at the onset - any advice will be welcome - thanks.
June 5th, 2008 at 6:33 amHi Patty, I was trying to contact you via the website you have listed but cant get thru. Can you email me as soon as it convenient for you please? I have a question about the inverted vulva. Thank you.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:51 pmDonna
For anyone trying to contact me my web site is currently down and most likely will not be back up till mid to end of July.
I apologize for this but if you post your question here it comes directly to me via email and I will surely respond to you. I know my response will appear here and should also go directly to your personal email.
I also do so appreciate hearing back from anyone who is using my regime with RVs. I like to know how your pups and dogs are doing.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:52 pmHi,
Could you reccommend a course of action for us? We adopted a Springer Spaniel almost 6 years ago. Four years ago she had her anal sacs removed due to repetative infections. This left what I would call a pouchy area where the surgery was done. About six month later she started getting vulvular infections. We were told that it is because she has an inverted vulva. Long story short…Infection and swelling was controlled with antibiotic cream and pills. Since then she has gone through bouts of treatment about every six months. Our vet requests an appointment everytime she needs antibiotics. This is expensive. She is not a holistic vet, but is willing to work with any ideas we have. Are there any more natural ways to treat her. We are trying to avoid another surgery. It seems that she is fine while on the antibiotics suggesting to us that she has an immune imbalance that prevents her body from fighting off bacteria and infection. This could be due I am sure due to the repeated use of antibiotics.
Thanks,
July 17th, 2008 at 5:43 pmCindy
Moderator: Sorry - Thought this was an e-mail post. Could you please remove my phone number. Sorry for the confusion….Thanks!
Cindy
July 17th, 2008 at 5:51 pmCindy, I am sorry for the delay in responding to your post. For some reason it never came thru via email.
I would get your dog on the crancaps and probiotics and test urine PH regularly according to my blog. Do this diligently in the hopes you can prevent infections in the future and keep her off antibiotics.
This is the only natural treatment I have used and been successful with.
If your vet is willing to work with you holistically why don’t you print out my blog and give a copy to your vet.
If you have more questions please email me at patty@snowcolabradors.com
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:24 amCindy, one more thing:
Has your vet done a culture and sensativity to pinpoint the exact bacteria causing the infection? (see the second to last paragraph in my blog)
If not it could be the wrong antibiotic is being given and the reason the infection comes back once she is off the meds.
July 22nd, 2008 at 9:29 amPatty,
Thank you so much for your reply. I anticipated your answer and ordered probiotics and an herbal anti-bacterial cream. I was unsure of where to buy the cran-tabs. I did also purchase an all natural Immunity booster as she has tooth problems as well. The teeth issue did not begin until after all of the anti-biotics. I figured it was logical to go straigtht to the immune systemm espeicially the gut, to try and fix that problem. She is currently given plac-off in her water daily as well.
The All Natural Pet Store has a New crannberry formula. I thought that I might give it a try, but wanted to run it by you first. http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Cranberry-Wellness/999157.aspx
As for the bacteria. I did order the cream. Her infection was under control until a week off her antibiotic. It is coming back slowly but I am going to give the cream a try before trying the antibiotics again. In the past one week of the antibiotic would keep it at bay for up to six months. Winter would come and we would let her hair grow long and by spring the infection would come back. Probably my fault for not keeping her shaved in the area.
Her vet does seem to be interested in working with us holistically. She is just not trained in that area. Right now we are dealing with a broken tooth that will probably have to be removed.
I must add here, for anyone who is interested. This poor dog is the result of what I believe to be over breeding. She came from a pure breed Springer Spaniel puppy mill in Illinois. She was bought by a friend of ours from a local pet chain. The poor thing was born with a hernieated belly button and had surgery shortly before being sent to the pet shop. Then she was spayed before her first heat, creating I am sure the recessed vulva. She also had her anal sacs removed a few years ago for repeated infections. I am sure this was probably a result of a breakdown in genetics as well. I recommend for anyone buying a pure breed to thoroughly check out the breeder first, including a visit to their farm and to never buy from a pet shop unless you are really sure of where they get their puppies. I do whole heartedly advocated adoption from a pet rescue or shelter. Just be sure that you are ready for what you may be getting into, both emotionally and financially.
Thanks again Patty for your input,
Cindy
July 22nd, 2008 at 12:01 pmI have a Bichon Frise who has had chronic UTIs since the age of 8 months (she is 11 yo now). She has been on several herbal therapys but still continues with infections which are almost always Staph. She is from the same line as another Bichon “daughter” Abby. Abby developed calcium oxalate stones as some Bichons tend to do. She started out just like Nikki,with struvite crystals and small stones. The acidifying stopped the recurrent infection she had but caused or at least increased the production of calcium oxalate stones in her kidneys, which ultimately took her from me You can understand why I do NOT want to over acidify Nikki. Her urine is generally acidic anyway as she is on a raw diet. She appears to be somewhere between an innie and an outie. I will do ANYHTING to stop the infections and susequent need for antibiotcs.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:03 pmShe is taking immune boosting supplements and probiotics as well as Chinese herbs prescribed by a holistic vet. I worry so much about the infections and the antibiotics. Is there anything you can suggest- I haven’t tried the wipes yet but I will try. Can you give me more information on the natural antibiotic cream and its use? And anything else you can think of… I just want to help my girl!
Thanks!
I have a German shepherd pup rescue that I pulled from the shelter, and fostered. In the end we decided to keep her instead of adopting her out. She was diagnosed with an inverted vulva that i was told was severe yesterday. I’ve noticed in the two months I’ve had her she has had strong smelling urine. We went to the vet because I suspected UTI. Her age is a guess but she is 5-6 months.
Because she is a rescue pull I legally had 30 days to spay her (from May 17th) according to state law. If she had not been a rescue pull she would have been spayed before adoption. She became sick (possible parvo) upon exit from the shelter so her spay was legally extended. her appointment is for Monday and she has not gone through her first heat.
After the diagnosis and doing a bit more research, I have read she should not be spayed before her first heat. i called the vet back immediately and asked about this. I was told Kaya’s vulva is severely inverted not just mildly like I originally thought. The vet said there is really only marginal research on waiting for heat cycles to help with structure changes. She has only seen it help in limited cases and when the inversion is minimal. Because of Kaya’s structure she said pretty much only vaginal rhinoplasty *or however it is described) would correct the issue but that’s usually too expensive so managing her cleanliness and watching for UTI’s is probably the best way to go.
The vet feels that the based on her current vulva size going into heat would not enlarge her much and not change structure enough to be of any improvement. She doesn’t feel waiting will do anything. Since this isn’t just a case of me having the right to wait (since she is a rescue pull and we have to follow state law in order to continue pulling) I am looking for published research with statistics or something on waiting. otherwise she will have to be spayed Monday. Any help you may be able to give would be GREAT!!
Miranda
August 16th, 2008 at 9:13 amI have an 8 1/2 year old Siberian who has an inverted vulva. I wipe it clean every night with baby wipes and was recommended to put some medicated Gold Bond powder on it to help it stay dry. Lately it seems to be becomming more of a problem and I just can’t get it clean. She was spayed after her first heat cycle but the vulva was never diagnosed until she had a UTI a couple of years ago. Obviously with her super thick fur, its a constant battle to keep her clean. I’ve kept her fur trimmed up but after a closer inspection realized there was a lot more fur than I realized. My husband and I shaved her a bit last weekend to try to get her a little more under control but wasn’t able to get it all. We’re going to try again this weekend. I’m scared of nicking her and hurting her because it’s hard to decipher between what’s fur and what’s skin. Her “area” is a bit red though…poor thing. I don’t believe she has any infections, her urine is a normal color and she’s not shown any signs of anything. She has been diagnosed with Cushing’s Disease a year ago for which she’s on drug therapy for. She had a small tumor removed from behind her ear last Christmas and the fur never grew back so we’re hoping her “private area” hair doesn’t grow back either!
Is there any advice anyone can give me with such a thick fur’d dog suffering from this issue? She’s my precious baby and I want to make sure she’s healthy and pain free. She is still slightly overweight by about 10lbs but we’re working on it. She did gain quite a bit of weight over her years, but we’re getting it off with healthy eating and excercise.
I’m open to any contact via e-mail for any advice anyone can give me to make hers and my life a bit easier…
kanderson1@fuse.net
August 21st, 2008 at 11:34 amBTW…I know surgery is an option but with her age and having Cushing’s it’s just not something we want to do. Her life isn’t worth the risk in my opinion.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:37 amsince we have been using crancaps and testing her PH, our golden is doing much better - no UTI’s since and while i can’t say it soley because of the crancaps, i think it;’s because we are proactive in cleaning her, testing the PH, etc. now we are faced more with her hips/leg issue - we’ve been using trixcyn and it seems to be ok but i still would like to find a homeopathic anti-inflamatory. if anyone knows of one, please email us.
September 25th, 2008 at 4:55 pmby the way our email is espo13@comcast.net - thanks again.
September 25th, 2008 at 4:56 pmMy 4 month old puppy has a recessed vulva and has had one UTI which was treated with Clavamox. I have been using the cranberry capsules twice a day along with probiotics for almost two weeks. She has started having accidents again. Also my vet said I needed to let her go through one or two heat cycles before I have her spayed. The problem is that he told me there is only a 50/50 chance that this would correct the problem. If the heat cycles don’t work he told me the corrective surgery would cost $400.00. I don’t have that kind of money and I can’t handle the thoughts of getting more attached to her and the heat cycles not correcting the problem. PLEASE HELP ME TO KNOW WHAT TO DO. I HAVEN’t SLEPT FOR SEVERAL NIGHTS!!
October 9th, 2008 at 9:17 pmJeanie,
Please do not panick. It is late now at 11:30 p.m. but did want to
get back to you.
What breed is your dog? I have had 3 Lab pups, all corrected, so don’t panick.
I will help you anyway I can to deal with this without your having to do surgery.
Be a bit more patient. I am here for you, please know that.
We will correspond tomorrow.
Patty
October 9th, 2008 at 10:31 pmPatty,
October 9th, 2008 at 10:42 pmTHANK YOU SO VERY MUCH for your QUICK response. My dog is a Papillion mix. The problem is that the original owner said that the father is a terrier or sheltie mix. They were not sure. apparently one of the neighborhood dogs got loose and impregnated their papillion. So the father is probably a mutt. my puppy is now 4 months old. Please know how grateful I am for your help. Jeanie
I have been reading the messages regarding recessed vulva’s in puppies. We have a whippet which we bred ourselves and she had a recessed vulva, the vet said that they usually correct themselves after 1st season and it did. We would like to have a litter from her but we are worried that she will produce puppies with the same condition, is that possible? Should we breed from this bitch? The vet said that it is not hereditary but did not know much more about the condition.
October 19th, 2008 at 9:03 amHi, I have two french bulldogs. My female Stella is 3 years old & has an inverted vulva. I was pleased to find this info — since overall, I have found little information on daily care/treatment/ointments for this condition & her overall comfort. I have known since she was 4 months old, but our vet thought it best to spay her prior to her 1st heat. I keep her as clean as possible… wiping her clean daily (+ using prescription Malaseb wipes) & having vet check ups quite often to monitor “her area”… thankfully she doesn’t get many UTI’s… but we are constantly dealing with “her area”… being red/irritated, too dry? from or perhaps itchy (since she scoots & her anal glands are empty)… I am hoping someone can give some advice.
Are there ointments that could relieve this sensitivity/redness/itchiness? Would this be a silly thought to use female products on her?? (would these be safe?) Of course, I would check w/ my vet… but any thoughts… or suggestions would be helpful!
October 26th, 2008 at 7:49 amJust checking in here. A lot of times I respond to people via email so miss putting my response here for others to see.
As to Sue asking about breeding a bitch with a RV:
It is not proven hereditary but my girl born with an RV produced 2 pups with RV so who is to say. If she were not retired from my breeding program for other reasons I would not hesitate to breed her again even with the chance I could have pups with RVs.
If you follow my advice above you should be able to prevent UTIs until first heat corrects RV (as it does in most cases).
As to Marie regarding ointments:
You need to check with your vet for something that can safely be ingested as your dog will most likely clean herself. Plain vasaline comes to mind but, again, check with your vet.
I also hope you told your vet what you learned from my blog in the hopes your vet will not spay another dog with RV before first heat cycle.
December 30th, 2008 at 2:25 pmWe have a 14 month old Bull Dog who has had a white discharge ever since we got her at 8 wks. Our vet had said that it was common to have this type of discharge which is passed on from the puppy’s mother and she would grow out of it. At six months she was spayed (which was befor her first heat). I took her back to question again the discharge and he said to wait till she was 1 yr and see it she grows out of it. No urine was tested and not medications were given during this whole time. At a year old we took her back and at that time he said she had a severe recessed vulva and did a urinary test where there was blood coming out with her pee. They put her on antibiotics and scheduled surgery once the antibiotics were finished. He said it was the worst RV he had seen and he stopped counting the stitches. Well, she seemed to heal great and got all the stitches out. It was about 3 weeks after surgery and the white, thick discharge was back again. Now he states that he could go back in for surgery because he believes there is more hair inside causing the infection. He also stated that he is not sure this will cure her, so it is up to us to decide. He also stated this time that the discharge is not an infection, but did not take a urine test.
We are also concerned to see if she is eating the right dog food, we feed her Science Diet lamb and rice for adult dogs 1-6. We have heard in the past that a lot of dog food can be very harmful and cause diseases such as Diabetes.
Can you please reply to both situations above.
Thank you,
February 28th, 2009 at 10:49 amLinda
Hi Linda,
As I mentioned in my email I have not heard of such a discharge being from birth and passed on by the mother. It sounds like puppy vaginitis.
A culture should have been done on this discharge and if not it should be done now. If there is no discharge when you are at the vet have them do an internal/vaginal smear to send to the lab.
I also wonder if the vet that did the surgery is the one that also spayed her prior to her first heat. If so, I would find another vet. They obviously did not know enough to wait to spay, putting you in this situation/surgery.
If at the time of surgery it was the worst RV he has seen than why did he not notice this prior to spaying your pup? Trust me it was there - she was born with the RV.
As I mentioned to your husband on the phone I have never heard of a RV that also involves hair inside the vulva. I would clarify that with the vet.
I would culture this discharge to find out what you are dealing with (yeast or bacteria) and try a holistic approach before putting your pup thru another (possibly unneccessary) surgery.
As I also mentioned. Lets see what you are dealing with (after culture) and than we will talk about food. Especially if this is a yeast her body is harboring.
Please keep me posted.
March 4th, 2009 at 10:15 amPatty,
March 6th, 2009 at 11:12 amMy husband took our Sophie to the vet and they did take a culture and sent it out. It will take about a week to get it back. He also put her on a vaginal cream for 7 days. She has had no discharge since the cream has started. Right now we are waiting on the results from the culture.
Good luck. Let me know when you get the results.
March 6th, 2009 at 11:52 amTESTIMONIAL to Patty Snow’s regime for inverted vulva.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:07 pmMillie,
So glad you have gotten good results and kept thing under control.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:19 pmTESTIMONIAL to Patty Snow’s regime for inverted vulva. The results of the regime with Cran-caps, Multi-dophilus and PH testing has been nothing less than a small miracle. Our 7 year old American Eskimo suffered from this condition for most of her life. It would return every 3-4 months and would get so bad she would acutally get small lesions around her vulva. Extremely painful. Our vet tried creams, sprays, medication; nothing worked. Then I found this site. Our vet was not very supportive of this holistic approach. With nothing to lose I started to follow this regime anyway. Our dog has not had a reoccurence for over 6 months now. It really WORKS!
May 8th, 2009 at 2:19 pmHave you informed your vet of the success you have had? Perhaps after seeing/hearing how well it works they will recommend it to their patients.
May 8th, 2009 at 2:24 pmThe new vet (who was the only one to take a culture to finally determine that it was bacteria) may be more receptive. They referred us to a skin specialist who didn’t even feel it was UTI. Their only suggestion was corrective surgery. There is no guarantee that the surgery will correct the problem so I feel (as I believe you do) that surgery should be the last resort. I had our dog on 4 Cran-caps as well as the probiotics daily but will cut back the Cran-caps to 2-3 now and keep testing the PH. If the PH increases, then I will increase the Cran-caps. I am keeping her on the probiotics daily. Our dog would not take the capsules so I have to cut them in half with pruning shears, take out the cranberry consentrate with the blunt end of a Q-tip and then mix with honey because it is so bitter. Then I cut 1″ slices of smoked sausage, cut them in half (not all the way through)(one per capsule), scoop out one side with a spoon to make a small pocket and put the mixture in with a my finger. I make 3-4 at a time and refrigerate them. Rather labor intensive but she likes sausage and I am willing to do whatever it takes to keep her well.
May 8th, 2009 at 3:23 pmMillie, you are an incredible mom.
With Labs they will eat anything so I don’t have to go to those extremes but you know I would if I had to.
Do what ever you have to to keep your girl UTI free.
Kudos to you for your diligence, thats what it is all about.
May 8th, 2009 at 6:27 pmMillie, I like your style! Luckily, Maggie will devour anything put in front of her so pills go down the hatch easily.
May 20th, 2009 at 8:48 pmWish I had known about Patty’s regime months ago. Long story short, my 13 month old Goldie was spayed at 7 months and soon after developed a UTI. I thought, no big deal, and we treated with antibiotics. Well, it kept coming back. C & S culture confirmed E coli bacteria and sensitivity to several antibiotics. So, we conventionally kept treating with antibiotics. Thankfully, I found Patty’s blog on early spay, took Maggie in the next day, and the vet confirmed that her vulva was “a little tucked up”. I suggested that perhaps we should have delayed the spay until after her 1st heat cycle because of this. He said he has spayed countless females with recessed vulvas prior to their 1st heat with no problems. Needless to say, we’re on the waiting list for a holistic vet in our area. Unfortunately it is a long list, but I’m not feeling desperate like I was before.
Since faithfully following Patty’s instructions, it has been 2 months since Maggie has ended her last round of antibiotics. And she is symptom free! Her urine pH averages 6.5. WHAT A RELIEF! We stopped the probiotics and continue with 1000 mg cran-tabs twice a day. Maggie is a healthy, happy and delightfully naughty teenager!
4 Paws up for Patty! We are so glad we found you and cannot thank you enough.
Jill
May 20th, 2009 at 9:01 pmJill,
This is so good to hear! You go girl! Keep up your diligence and prayers Maggie stays UTI free.
PS: the May 8th anonymous to Millie was me, forgot to fill in my name
May 20th, 2009 at 9:34 pmPatty,
I have read everyones dilemas above, and truely appreciate what you’re doing - you are a life saver!!! I have a 16 1/2 year old retreiver mix, she been having recurring UTI’s for a year now, and constantly on antibiotics, the vet did a sonogram and x-ray of her kidney and bladder, and found nothing. I’m really thankful that I found you. I’m definitely going to go this holistic route. I found cranberry concentrate tablets at the drug store, their called AZO Cranberry it says with Immune Boosting Probiotic & Vitamin C (Ingredients =60mg Vit. C; 52mg Calcium; 40mg Phosphorus; 900mg natural cranberry concentrate and Lactobacillus Sporogenes 100 million CFU’s)- I was wondering if I could use these on my old precious pooch? Thank a million!!
May 22nd, 2009 at 4:36 pmHi Becky,
That product sounds fine. I also highly recommend that you get the PH strips to keep track. Especially since your girl has had recurring issues.
Note: if you buy PH strips from the company in my blog be sure and mention me and this blog so that they will sell just one box and no minimum for credit card purchases.(something new they started) Had a problem recently and called the company to straighten it out. If you have a problem please email or call me and I will straighten it out for you.
Go for it! And if you get results, which you should, be sure and report them to your vet.
Too many vets push antibiotics and poo poo the holistic approach.
Don’t hesitate to email me or call if you need any help.
And please keep me posted on how your “precious pooch” does.
Patty
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:18 pmBecky,
I forgot to mention 16 1/2 WOW! And wonderful that her kidney and bladder look good.
Are you also doing full blood work to check organ function? This is important to do yearly on seniors. See my blog on “our beloved seniors”.
If you have not done blood work, please do. Just because a sonogram and x-ray show nothing wrong - blood work is more definitive of organ function.
Patty
May 22nd, 2009 at 5:22 pmHi Patty,
Thank you for your quick response! I’m just not too sure how much to give her, since the AZO it different (everyday maintenance - I know I should double up when her PH tests high)? Yes, I plan on getting the PH stips as well from that website, I will mention you and this blog, and will let you know if I have any problems! I will definitely mention it to my vet, thank you, and hope it will help others as well! Yes, I have been doing full blood work on her for a while now, every 6 months, everything seems just fine, so far so good
Again, thank you for all you do, you should look into becoming a vet!!! 
Becky
May 26th, 2009 at 11:08 amHi Becky,
Your product has 900mg of cranberry concentrate per dose. That should be fine. The one I use is 700mg per gel cap. Yes dbl up if elevated PH.
Glad to hear all bloodwork is good. The one thing I will point out is as you do blood work, if you ever see her phosphorous elevated, that is a sign of kidney function (along with elevated BUN, creatinine, etc.). When a dog has kidney failure (KF) with phosphorous elevation it is very important to feed low phosphorous food.
Your product has 40 mg of phosphorous so please keep that in mind.
If you ever discover KF (I have a blog on that too)I would switch to a crancap with no phosphorous.
May 26th, 2009 at 11:22 amPatty,
Great, I will keep that in mind, well, acutally, now I’m thinking just to purchase the crancaps, I don’t want to take any chances!! Thanks much!
May 26th, 2009 at 11:46 amOur golden, Asia, used to experience UTI;s from a recessed vulva. Although she just passed away, i can attest to how well crancaps works. Our vet was pushing for surgery and after contacting Patti, we followed her plan - we ordered crancaps from progressive labs along with the probiotics. we would give 3 a day (at lunch). i would check her ph as Patti outlined, and Asia never had a UTI after. (which was about a year or so ago.) Actually i take that back the - she had one and it happened when we ran out of crancaps and were waiting for the new order - in those few shorts days she was off the pills, she had a mild case - i would definitely recommend what Patti outlines - we would also like to pass along a thank you to Patti for the time she spent answering our many emails and for her help in Asia’s condition -
May 31st, 2009 at 7:51 pmSam,
I’m sorry you lost your Goldie Asia. We just put our old Lab Coal to sleep in January. It’s so hard to lose your best friend. We had many months to prepare for this, but still, it’s never easy. We knew we had to have a dog in our lives so we brought Maggie home just a year ago. It has helped so much to fill the void.
Know that you took good care of Asia. Take care,
Jill
June 4th, 2009 at 9:21 pmSam,
Prayers for you and your family in your loss. RIP Sweet Asia. Run pain free at the Bridge
Patty
June 5th, 2009 at 8:58 amI have a Mastiff that is only a year and a half old. She has suffered from UTIs since her first doctor’s visit when she was a puppy. She was also spayed at the age of 7 months, which was before her first heat. We have done ultrasounds and x-rays, numberous urine tests (sterile and regular), and she has been on many different antibiotic (Baytril, Simplicef, Amoxicillan) with little success. Every time we seem to correct the problem it returns a week or two later. Just recently, large amounts of e-coli were detected in her bladder and an area of calcification was seen in her kidney. We have tried giving her orange juice, vinegar, and dried cranberries with no success. She is on special low-residue food already. I have even resorted to “wiping” her each time she comes in from going to the bathroom. The problem just seems to get worse and we are becoming more and more frustrated.
Just the other day a vet, not from my normal office, told me that all of my dog’s problems were caused by her recessed vulva. I had never heard of anything like that before. He said that the only way to correct the problem was surgery. Is he correct, since it seems we have tried almost everything else? What does the surgery involve?
When I discussed this with my regular vet, he told me that surgery would probably not solve the problem and wants to send me to a specialist. He feels that my dog’s problems are caused by a small pouch in the bladder that is harboring bacteria. Could this also be the case?
Sorry if I am rambling, but it is late and I just happened to find your site. You really seem to know a great deal about this subject and have had much success in this area. I could use any help and advice you were able to give me. Thanks.
August 5th, 2009 at 9:23 pmI am sorry you are dealing with so much with your girl. Cranberry lines the bladder wall preventing bacteria from sticking.
The concentrated crancaps would be much better than dried cranberries.
I would try dbl dosing your girl for 2 weeks and checking her urine PH on a regular basis as I mention in my blog. I would try this before surgery.
I have never heard of a pouch in the bladder but it would be worth confirming it one way or another. And finding out what, if anything, can be done to correct it.
The surgery the other vet mentioned is called a vulvoplasty (google it for info). Its basically a nip and tuck to remove the valley around the vulva so urine can no longer pool in it and this should stop the infections.
I would think the vets would want to get rid of the Ecoli first before doing any surgery. I would also be sure you find a seasoned vet in this procedure. Don’t let just any vet do it. Make sure and ask how many they have performed and I would ask for references from those patients as to the success of the surgery.
Because of all the antibiotic your dog has been on I would be sure and get her on a good live organism probiotic as I mention in my blog.
Please come back and let me know how you make out.
Patty
August 6th, 2009 at 9:49 amKristin,
I forgot to ask if the vet has done a culture and sensitivity from a sterile urine sample?
This is important to pinpoint the exact bacteria in order to give the correct antibiotic.
You mention E-coli. Was this found in a C/S?
August 6th, 2009 at 9:59 amHi Patty,
I’m very happy to give an update from my 5/20/09 post. Maggie continued to be symptom free from UTIs. We give her cran tabs 2x day and have gotten lazy with checking urine pH. We used to be so paranoid and check it 2x week, now it’s about 2x month.
She has, however, had 2 bouts with hot spots under her ears this summer. Floppy ears, daily swims in the ocean and a low immune system (my theory based on all the antibiotics she’s been on) have made for nasty infections and more antibiotics.
We’ve finally seen our new holistic vet. She was very impressed that we’re using cran tabs to ward off the UTIs. She suggested keeping Maggie on daily probiotics and a home cooked diet, both of which we’re doing as well as some herbal supplements for her “damp heat” condition. TCM is very interesting.
I’ll keep you posted. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge. Jill
August 24th, 2009 at 7:09 pmHi Jill.
That is great news that she has been UTI free.
Talk to your holistic vet about vit. C for immunity. I give 1000mg daily to adult dogs.
I start pups at 8 weeks on 125mg per 25 lbs. of weight.
I agree with using a probiotic. Be sure and give it 2-3 hours away from antibiotics when she is on meds. Otherwise the antibiotics will just counter act the probiotic.
Thanks for you update and hoping she continues to be UTI free and her hot spots clear up.
Patty
August 25th, 2009 at 9:54 amHi Patty,
We haven’t added Vit C yet. It’s not on vet’s list but your dose is recommended in Dr. Pitcairn’s book, which the vet uses as a model. I will pick some up today.
This little gal is eating better than we are! Hot spots are finally all healed so we went for a long awaited swim yesterday. She loved being back in the water. Luckily she still doesn’t have much hair under her ears (looks like a Clingon) so we can keep a close eye for hot spots developing.
Thanks again, Jill
August 29th, 2009 at 7:13 amHi Patty! We adopted 2 black labs at 8 weeks; Male is fine, Female as an inverted vulva. She developed a rash & the breeder took her to the vet. He found out about the inverted vulva and she was put on an antibiotic. The vet also suggested that she get fixed at 5 months to fix the problem which is the opposite of your advice. We have an appt. with our vet next week…here’s our question…Our little gal drips contstantly, her little legs & tail are always soaked as well as any place she sits or lays her head. Is this the infection? or is it the inverted vulva? We try our best to keep her dry but to no avail. The breeder told us all that would be needed to be done is to wipe her after she goes. What a joke. She needs constant attention. We would appreciate any of your wisdom from your experiece. Thank You in advance for your help!
August 29th, 2009 at 6:05 pmHi Kate.
Please don’t spay your pup if she has a RV. The dripping could be an infection and if she has them now, spaying her prior to her first heat and not allowing the RV to correct could subject her to a life time of infections. You may than have to resort to surgery (vulvoplasty)if crancaps, etc. can’t control it. This is most likely what your vet plans to do when spaying her. Unless your vet thinks spaying alone will fix the problem which is absolutely incorrect. Either way I would not put a pup/dog thru a vulvoplasty without giving the RV a chance to correct on its own.
Find another vet who has experience with RV or show your vet my blog.
If she is on antibiotic and still dripping, either it is the wrong med for the bacteria (do a culture and sensitivity as I suggest in my blog) or the dripping may not be related at all.
Find out from the breeder if this pup dripped from birth. If so it could be an issue along the lines of ectopic ureter and an ultrasound would need to be done. There are die tests to pinpoint this as well.
I would get this pups on the crancaps and be testing PH at home on a weekly basis. Since she is leaking so bad, which could indicate a sever infection, I would first do the cult/sens. to pinpoint the exact bacteria and get her on the right antibiotic to nip this in the bud. Than retest the urine (via urinalysis) 3-5 days after meds are finished to be sure infection is cleared up and be sure and continue with the crancaps “every day” till her first heat cycle is over and you can recheck her RV to be sure it has corrected.
If the C/S show no bacteria and an infection is ruled out than you need to consider that she may have an ectopic ureter.
Please don’t be afraid to stand up to your vet and refuse the spay. Most vets are taught in school to spay at 5-6 months and some will push the issue.
Please keep me posted. Praying this is just an infection from her RV.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:06 amPS: if there is no infection and you find an ectopic ureter you need to be working with a urologist in regard to corrective surgery.
August 31st, 2009 at 11:17 amJill,
wonderful to hear her hot spots are cleared up.
Hoping they stay that way.
Thanks for the update
Patty
August 31st, 2009 at 11:19 amExcellent site, keep up the good work
September 1st, 2009 at 11:39 pmKate, If I knew then what I know now, I would have waited for Maggie to go through 1 or 2 heat cycles before spaying her. As responsible owners, it’s no big deal to wait if there’s even a small chance it will prevent UTIs. Good luck to you. Jill
September 2nd, 2009 at 9:12 pmThank You so much, Patty! We took Sookie to our vet & she told us that the breeder’s vet was old school. In the last 15 years she only had 1 dog need a surgical outcome…she agreed with you that the first heat will probably be the remedy (although we have a specialist’s name from the U of PA, she wants Sookie to get bigger before we take her for tests) A stronger antibiotic was prescribed & after 2 days we’ve seen a definite change.
Also, she felt her bladder & it was full (good news) and wants us to limit her water intake to a pint a day. She said that labs are notorious for drinking until they are ready to burst & claims that will help eliminate the dripping, however, everything we’ve read suggest that water be readily available. (We have our family room covered with reusable pads. I do about 6 loads of wash a day but feel it’s worth it to keep her & the room dry-I don’t want to limit her access to the room when her brother is running around playing) We don’t leave water out for them but do give it to them when we see that they are thirsty. She does seem like she is thirsty more than her brother. We are wondering if the urine is a lighter color doesn’t that mean that will help keep the infection away…does that make any sense to you?
Unfortunately, because the breeder thought she had a rash from laying in wet grass & not an infection from an inverted vulva…she will permantely have black bumps in the area. We purchased sensitive skin baby wipes to clean & dry the area. Will it help to use a baby salve (not in the folds) like desitin?
Finally, we are going to take your advice & get the crancaps & do ph testing weekly (wiil go shopping for them today)
Many, many thanks, Patty, for your advice & for this wonderful website. It really gave us important info that allowed us to relax & not panic. We fell in love with Sister Sookie the first moment we saw her. Thankfully that is why the breeder took her to the vet in the first place-he had her seperated from her brothers & sisters in case she was contagious. It seems like we were meant to adopt her. She is a wonderful pup and a great addition to our family. I will definitely keep you posted.
Best Regards,
September 4th, 2009 at 10:03 amKate
Thanks, Waggily Tail, for your well wishes & to all who post on this site. Your stories gave us hope & informed us with the right info.
Take care & have a great holiday weekend!
September 4th, 2009 at 10:10 amHi Kate,
I’m so glad your vet agreed on waiting for first heat.
As for black spots being permanent, I don’t know about that. My one girl had a severe infections with lots of dark rust color around her vulva and it went away.
Glad you have a specialist lined up but hopefully you won’t need one. (I’m assuming this in case of having to test for an ectopic ureter)
Her urine could be lighter because she is taking in so much water and I don’t see that keeping infection away but it could deter a bit (I’m just not sure). I would not limit her water too much if you can deal with the dripping until you get a grip on this.
Did they do the culture/sensitivity? If not, and this new stronger antib. does not get rid of the infection - than you must do the C/S to pinpoint the exact bacteria. Be sure and retest a urine sample 3-5 days after finishing the current antib.
Good luck, hoping the crancaps and PH testing will keep her UTI free until she has her first heat and corrects. Be sure and get PH strips that go as hi as 10 PH. There are those that only go to 8 and that is not enough as some dogs PH can go higher than that with a severe infection.
Thanks for the update and I look forward to positive updates in the future.
Patty
September 8th, 2009 at 11:37 amHi Patty, I found this blog from your recent posting on JL Forum. Great info, thank you for sharing all your knowledge!! I have a 4 month old lab with inverted vulva (although in the last month or so it seems to be getting bigger, popping out, as she’s growing). Since we got her (from reputable breeder) at 8 wks, she has had creamy white/yellow vaginal discharge. Vet diagnosed puppy vaginitis. Tried 2 rounds of Clavamox which didn’t seem to make a difference. Pup does not show any signs of UTI (straining, dribbling, frequency, etc.) Would you agree that this discharge is vaginitis, and not UTI? Is discharge/vaginitis related to the inverted vulva? Finally, our vet and research I’ve done on my own both says it’s inconclusive on whether to spay before or after first heat in these cases. What does the first heat do t resolve the problem? Would it make a difference in the case of vaginitis/discharge? Thank you for all the info!
September 29th, 2009 at 10:47 pmHi Patty,
What brand of “herbal antibacterial cream” do you use and/or recommend? I searched through all the comments and people mention a cream, but I can’t find any mention of a specific brand.
I have a 10-yr old golden who has a ‘tucked vulva.’ Unfortunately I didn’t know she had this defect, and I had her spayed right at 6 months of age. In the last 18 months she’s been getting multiple UTIs and she has another one now, just 30 days after competing 3 weeks of Baytril treatment for the last one. Her first post-treatment cysto, 5 days out, was negative and we retested again 30 days after the last cysto and I just got the call that she is UTI positive. Her urine is cultured to determine best antibiotic. She had an xray done to rule out stones (test was negative). She was also given a urine Cushings marker test (negative).
BTW, I have not had her on cranberry, but I’m going to start immediately! Have also read that organic raw apple cider vinegar (1 tbsp) is a good thing to add to their food once a day, in addition to the daily crancaps.
I’m very anxious to do whatever I can to get my girl back to optimum health. She needs to lose about 5 to 7 lbs so I’ll be working on that, in addition.
I understand from reading your comments that I will also need to do routine ph testing on her urine.
Please let me (and your readers) know about the cream. Thank you!
September 29th, 2009 at 11:54 pmHi Katherine,
While I have not had puppy vaginitis with a RV I have read that it can be a result of the RV just like UTIs. It can also be present in a pup with no RV. I would say the discharge is not from UTI but is from vaginitis.
What I have also read is that antibiotic will not work on vaginitis.
See this site and scroll down to puppy vaginitis. See where Dr. Hutch (Repro Specialist) is quoted in red. I have consulted with this vet on other issues and trust his judgements.
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/vaginitis_puppy_acne_demodectic_mange.htm
Also see this taken from:
http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/cannine%20infection%20infert_1.htm
“Puppy vaginitis is commonly seen in pre-pubertal bitches and usually resolves at the first heat.”
If you have not had a urine test done yet I would do this just to be sure PH, specific gravity, etc. are in normal range (see proper collection method in my blog).
My pup from last litter has an RV and her urine is fine accept for a slight WBC elevation. Her vet is not concerned and agrees with no antibiotic and keeping pup on crancaps and retesting urine.
I would also be testing your pup’s urine PH at home weekly or bi weekly as I mention in my blog.
I would give the crancaps I mention above and get her on a good live organism probiotic and I would also not spay her until after her first heat, unless vulva corrects on its own prior to that.
Not allowing it to correct could subject her to a life time of issues of V and/or UTIs.
If your vet has not had RV patients than he won’t have seen the results of waiting for first heat. I have in 3 of my dogs and all corrected. Waiting on the 4th.
There is no guarantee but IMO its worth giving it a chance to correct. More RVs correct than not.
I hope I answered all your questions. If I missed anything please let me know.
Patty
September 30th, 2009 at 9:47 amHi Natalie,
I have never used a cream so honestly can’t recommend one.
I would definately get your girl on the crancaps and dbl dose initially. Strange that the culture tells you the bacteria found for proper med and the med is not working. Are they giving a high enough dose?
The ACV will regulate the alkaline in her urine. From what I have read most infections (UTIs) occur in alkaline urine (PH would be elevated), the ACV should help maintain an acidic urine (Keeping PH low - in normal range). I have never used ACV so not sure if it will help. I have never had a need for it since the crancaps have always done the job for my dogs.
Yes, you should be testing PH at home in order to catch a UTI in the early stages, dbl up on cracaps and retest in a week, and hopefully be able to avoid antibiotic.
With all the antibiotic your girl has been on I would also get her on a live organism probiotic to put good bacteria back into her system that the meds have killed off.
If anyone else can recommend a cream that they use (that vet recommended) with success please chime in.
Patty
September 30th, 2009 at 10:11 amHi,
My golden is 63 lbs. How many mg of cranberry extract constitutes a “double dose”?
September 30th, 2009 at 12:19 pmNatalie
See this: See where I mention cutting down to 1/day for maintenance and checking PH to be sure it is enough.
Note: The Crancaps have been changed/improved. They are now a “fruit” concentrate rather than a “juice” concentrate. And they are concentrated at 12:1. The softgels are now 420mg ea. Therefore, I would give 2/day (split up in a.m. and p.m. meal) for maintenance and give 4/day (split up in a.m. and p.m.) when PH is elevated or you have a UTI and are using the Crancaps in lieu of antibiotics. If you are seeing PH in normal range consistantly you can try cutting down to one capsule daily for maintenance. Keep checking PH to be sure this amount will be sufficient.Note: Progressive’s crancaps contain soy. If your dog has an allergy to soy or you suspect it; see this GNC product instead: http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2182679 (2 capsules = 1000mg).
September 30th, 2009 at 12:35 pmI just purchased “nature’s bounty” triple strength cranberry softgels. Serving size = 2 softgels and ea serving contains 1,040 mg of 12:1 concentrate. So 3 a day should be enough, yes? I know she can eventually be given less depending on her PH level.
I am not using cranberry in lieu of antibiotics–my dog will go on antibiotics starting this evening. Cranberry will be used as an adjunct and for maintenance ongoing. I don’t have the PH strips yet so I have no idea what her PH level is right now–all I know is that the vet called and said her most recent cysto tests positive for UTI. I also have a bottle of acidopholus capsules (400 mg) which has to be refrigerated. I will start her on 1 per day, 3 to 4 hrs after her antibiotic.
September 30th, 2009 at 12:49 pmYou would probably be okay with just 2 a day but since you have been battling this problem go with the 3 to be safe and than you can cut down.
How many million or billion live organism probiotic is in each of your 400mg acidopholus capsules? Since this is the 3rd (or so) time she will be on antibiotics you want to be sure and give enough probiotics.
I give 1/2 tspn of a 10 billion live organism to an adult when using antibiotics. My product is 1/3 tsp =(1gram) or (1000mg)
Be sure and continue the probiotics a good week or 2 after antibiotics are finished.
September 30th, 2009 at 1:49 pmActually, I’m going to get a brand new bottle of acidopholos/probiotics at Whole Foods (the refrigerated kind) since I’m not sure the current bottle of Solgar Acidophilus Plus I have is viable–I think it’s too old now. I will look for the 10 billion live organism potency. I already gave her the first dose of cranberry capsules when I was home for lunch. Antibiotics (Clavimox) will start tonight.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:43 pmGood luck and please let me know how she does.
September 30th, 2009 at 2:51 pmHi Patty-
We spoke on the phone last week about my dog Izzy and her ear issues and RV issues. Anyhow, I know you speak to alot of people but I wanted to let you know that her ears have improved drastically since starting the purple solution. Thank you so much for all your help with that. Now we are starting to see her vaginitis flair up again (discharge after urinating) and tonight she has started to have to urinate much more frequently. Up till now she hasn’t had UTI’s (that we know of) but we have issues with the vaginitis off and on. Last time she had it this bad they gave her antibiotics. It did clear up but I want to avoid antibiotics if I can. Do you think I should try your crancaps therapy first? Will this help cure a UTI or just help prevent one? I’m not positive if it is a UTI but just in case how many crans should I give her? I got the GNC ones (500mg) she is 5months old.
Thanks as always really! We are trying to avoid the vet because we have spent 1,000 in vet bills in the last 3 months. Financially we just cant keep going like this. Plus I am all for limiting antibiotics. Trying to get this puppy well so we can all enjoy eachother.
All your help is so appreciated.
September 30th, 2009 at 11:10 pmI wanted to pass along some info I got about another supplement that can be used instead of (or with) cranberry for UTIs. It’s called “D-mannose” and it’s a sugar-like substance that you can sprinkle in food or in some water and it works like cranberry does but supposedly even does a better job. I ordered some online (the NOW brand, which is 100% pure). There is anecdotal evidence that it works well for humans and animals. Supposed to have a sweet taste and does not affect blood sugar since most of it is passed to the lower GI/bladder. It is supposed to helps flush out the e.coli bacteria and keep the struvites from adhering to the bladder walls. I will be adding this to my dog’s food (1 or 2 tsp./day) when I get it and continue with the cranberry as well. I hope this info is helpful; I’ll let you all know how it works for my dog.
October 1st, 2009 at 5:44 pmHi Pam,
I would give her one crancap a.m. and p.m. I would also get yourself the PH strips I mention in my blog and monitor her PH to catch a UTI in early stages and follow my instruction on dbl up if PH is high, etc.
I have cured UTIs with crancaps (retesting urine at the vet). It may be best to take a sample to the vet to check for UTI (no need to take the dog and pay an office visit).
From what I know antibiotic will not help vaginitis. The crancaps may help but i would also get her on a good probiotic.
Let me know how you make out.
Patty
October 3rd, 2009 at 2:36 pmNatalie I had heard of the D Manose but don’t like giving sugar to my dogs (won’t use crancaps that contain sugar). If needing to use this long term for preventative on a RV pup for a good year - sugar is not good for coat.
Dbl check it with your vet as I have no experience with the product or the type of sugar it is.
I would do a search now but upstate NY and having computer problems. I’ll check it out when i get home.
Patty
October 3rd, 2009 at 2:39 pmHi Patty,
According to one article, “D-Mannose is absorbed eight times slower than glucose, and when ingested, is not converted to glycogen or stored in the liver, but rather goes directly to the blood stream from the upper GI tract.”
The wiki on D-Mannose says, “D-Mannose is not well metabolized. Therefore, it does not significantly enter the carbohydrate metabolism when taken orally. 90% of mannose ingested is excreted unconverted into the urine within 30 - 60 minutes, with 99% of the remainder being excreted within the following 8 hours. There is no significant increase in blood-glucose levels during this time.”
My vet was unfamiliar with this supplement so she was not able to give me any feedback. However, I’m going to try it, as others who have tried this with their dogs have reported very positive results. I will keep you all apprised on how my dog does on this.
October 4th, 2009 at 7:06 amThanks for the info Natalie. Please do keep us posted on how she does.
October 4th, 2009 at 8:57 amHey Patty,
I have a three month old black and silver miniature schnauzer that was recently diagnosed with a rv. The vet was doing an exam when I went in for her 12 wk shots and just pointed it out to me. Our pup has not had a uti but I am concerned about spaying her before her first heat. The vet said that when pups have this condition they oftentimes just do a procedure that pulls the skin back. She did not mention waiting until after first heat. My concern is that I have heard that if you don’t spay pups before their first heat they have a higher chance of getting cancer. What should I do and what would you recommend? Also, should i put my pup on those cranberry tablets even if she hasn’t shown to have a problem? Thank you SO much!!!
October 28th, 2009 at 7:48 pmHi Katherine,
Most vets don’t know about waiting for the first heat to correct the RV and jump right to the surgery.
I personally would go thru a first heat. Surgery is a very last resort. Even if a dog with RV is spayed prior to firt heat I would try holistic approaches (like mine) for chronic UTIs before I would resort to the surgery.
I am not sure about your breed but in Labs (large dogs) it is best to allow first heat for full maturity - even without a RV.
Cancer chances are minimal with only having one heat cycle. Your pup will most likely come in heat between 6-12 months. Could be a bit longer. Spaying prior to 2 1/2 years reduces risks. See this link:
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:6PHPR-L4yv8J:www.caninecancer.com/mammary.html+chances+of+cancer+in+unspayed+female+dogs&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I would put her on one crancap a day to help prevent any future problems prior to first heat. And test PH regularly.
If you don’t want to do crancaps at least get the PH strips to test urine on a regular basis as I mention in my blog, and if you have elevated PH than get on the crancaps and keep checking till back in normal range.
You could than go off the crancaps and just monitor PH. If she is tending to elevate periodically I would stay on 1 crancap daily till first heat.
Please keep me posted on what you decide.
October 29th, 2009 at 9:29 amHi,
I’m a Peace Corps Volunteer and adopted a 2-month-old female puppy in January 2007. She was spayed in late March 2007 at about 4 months old (before her first heat) by a group of American vets who came to do volunteer work near my community. Recently I’ve noticed that she licks herself often and her vulva is red and irritated. I tried putting a little bit of antibiotic cream on the irritated parts but I’m not sure that it’s making a difference. I decided to look it up on the internet, and after seeing pictures and reading descriptions, I am pretty sure she has a recessed vulva. I wish I had known to let her go through her first heat to see if it fixed itself, but unfortunately there’s not much I can do about that now.
My question is, is there any way I can tell if she has a UTI? There are no vets for me to take her to. I take as good care of her as possible but I have very little veterinary knowledge. She doesn’t have accidents in the house but when I take her for walks she pees pretty often and sometimes squats down to pee but only a few drips come out.
I’m finishing up my service here in 2 weeks and am headed back to the United States. I already made an appointment with my vet for the day after I get back… should I just hold out for that appointment? Is it worth it to wipe her with baby wipes or something in the mean time? Will 2 weeks make a big difference in her care? I really don’t know what to do.
Thank you so much for your help.
-Phoebe
November 6th, 2009 at 9:20 amHi Phoebe,
“when I take her for walks she pees pretty often and sometimes squats down to pee but only a few drips come out”
This is a classic sign of UTI. If you can get crancaps put her on them now to prevent further issues like urine crystals.
When you get home take a urine sample to the vet collected the way I describe above.
Since she is spayed I would keep her on crancaps for life and be sure to regularly test her urine PH.
Let me know if you need more help and have a safe trip home.
PS: sorry for the delay in my responding - computer glitch.
Patty
November 7th, 2009 at 12:31 pmHi and thanks for this site to explain options for the recessed vulva issues. I have a 2 year old smooth collie who was spayed before her first heat, because the vet said it was safer to do it then. she had her first UTI at about 6-7 months of age, and then not another one until last year. This year, she started licking her self excessively, and before i knew it, it was a red raw sore mess. She was on 2 courses of clavamox and as of yesterday, the infection is finally gone. I wish i could say that for the irritation in her vulva. I give her the cranberry probiotics, but does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to clean the area. I literally have to fight with her to even touch it, i know because its so sore. what should i clean it with? what position have people found to work best? how many times should i clean it? I ordered a salve from a holistic vet, but while i am waiting for it, she is just so irritated and sore. Any suggestions would be great. i fear i will have to get her surgery, but the vet at least is not pushing this. right now, i need to do all that i can to clear this up so i know if i can’t, then at least i did my best before resorting to surgery.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:34 pmHi Lisa,
I am glad you found my blog. Only sorry your vet was not more informed prior to spay.
2 UTIs is not a reason to do the surgery IMO.
Keep her on the crancaps and get the PH strips to monitor her urine PH as I mention above.
As for the irritation: it sounds like her licking constantly is causing this.
I would consider putting an elizabethen collar on her to get a grip on this soreness and keep her from licking in order to let it heal. Constant licking is keeping her vulva raw and sore.
In the mean time and while using the collar I would wipe her vulva with unscented baby wipes and use Bag Balm on her vulva. It has wonderful soothing properties.
You can try wiping her while she is standing as long as you get into the valley of the recess to remove pooled urine - she may tollerate this better.
Once the soreness goes away she will most likely leave her vulva alone and you can remove the E collar.
But do continue with the crancaps and testing PH. The probiotics can’t hurt to continue either.
Please let me know if you have more questions. You can always call me thru my website if that is easier.
Please let me know how you make out.
Patty
November 17th, 2009 at 8:57 pmPS: only wipe the vulva with baby wipes each time she urinates - not constantly.
But do keep her coated with Bag Balm for best results.
November 17th, 2009 at 8:59 pmPatty, I check here regularly because I always learn something.
Our holistic vet gave us aloe ointment with calendula for Maggie’s hot spots. I wonder if Bag Balm would have worked equally as well.
Lisa, good luck. Your poor collie must be miserable. In your post you mentioned cranberry probiotics. Did you mean cranbery and probiotics? Just want to be sure you know they are two different meds. I give Maggie both every day.
Just an update on our end. Patty, since we started Maggie on Vit C at the end of August like you recommended, she has not had any more hot spots. When we took her to the vet a coupe of weeks ago, they were amazed that she has not had a reoccurrance. She said in Sept and Oct they have seen unusually high problems with hot spots. Maybe the Vit C is working. One for her, one for me, and I haven’t been sick either!
And we’ve decreased the crancaps to 500 mg 2x daily. No symptoms of UTI and pH remains at 6.5ish. I wonder if eventually we can wean off it??
Jill
November 18th, 2009 at 6:54 pmJill,
I have heard of using an aloe product for its soothing properties but never tried it. Bag Balm is soothing too so it may work well for you. See what your holistic vet thinks. Bag Balm was originally developed for the sore, dry utters of cows.
Vit. C helps build the immune system so it may very well have done the trick on the hot spots.
Glad to hear it is all cleared up.
You can most likely go down to 1 crancap daily and be sure her PH stays in range. You can eventually try taking her off - checking PH and if she stays in range she may be fine.
Just be sure to spot the early signs of UTI and if PH elevates get her back on 2-3 a day for a few weeks and recheck PH.
You can experiment as long as you are on top of things - watching for excessive urination or squating often without expelling much urine, or leaking urine, accidents in the house, as these are signs of UTIs.
Thanks for the update and let me know how you make out with the experimenting.
Patty
November 19th, 2009 at 11:09 amMy 14 week old Golden Retriever puppy has been having UTI for about a month now. She seems to go all the time and house-breaking has not had much success. After a second visit with the vet she informed us that the puppy needed an episioplasty. She said she thought this operation would be costly - somewhere around 2000 to 2500 dollars. If all else fails and we do have to go to that route, is that a normal charge for this procedure?
November 20th, 2009 at 7:38 pmI don’t know the cost of the surgery in your area but that sounds very high.
If your pup has a recessed vulva please follow my info above and let her have a first heat cycle. The surgery is an absolute last resort if vulva does not correct on first heat and than only if the dog is having chronic UTIs.
Also,if you have to resort to the surgery make sure you have a vet seasoned in the procedure. Your vet not knowing the exact cost tells me they have never done this surgery.
If you vet pushes a spay prior to heat and pushes the surgery this tells me they don’t know enough about RVs and I would find a new vet.
If this were my pup I would get her on the crancaps and test urine PH at home until she has her first heat cycle. You must keep her on leash for her entire heat. Intact male dogs will travel miles to get to a female in heat.
Please let me know if you need more help or have more questions.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:33 amI have just begun my research after a 2.000 emergency internal medecine weekend visit for my Female German Shepherd 5 yr old who has just been diagnosed with an inverted Vulva and will not empty her bladder because of the pain. She has since a pup licked herself and it is always wet and sore looking dont even think about touching it. We have battled Bladder infections and UTI all her life and constantly giving her antibiotics and cream on her vulva. They want to scope her vulva and make sure nothing is there also talking surgery… I am sick and dont know what to do….she strains to pee and you can tell it hurts it has never been this bad. Thank you for any advice you can give me. Do I let them scope her and do surgery???
November 23rd, 2009 at 6:01 pmHi Deborah,
I am so sorry for what you are dealing with. Have the vets ever done a culture/sensitivity (urine taken via cystosentisis) to pinpoint the exact bacteria?
If not this should be your next step. This will tell them the proper meds to get rid of a recurring infection. I would than get her on crancaps and test PH at home as I mention in my blog to see if you can keep her infection free.
The surgery is a last resort if you can’t keep her UTI free with holisitic means. You don’t want her constantly on antibiotic.
I would also get her on a probiotic as I mention - during and after antibitiocs.
The other thing I am thinking because of her severe pain is have they checked her for bladder stones via x-ray or ultra sound? Recurring UTIs can involve crystals and if not cleared up those crystals can clump together causing bladder stones. You will often see blood in the urine with stones. They can be very painful and prevent a dog from emptying the bladder. Usually surgery is required to remove the stones.
If these things I have mentioned have not been done I would find another vet willing to go this route prior to putting her thru vulvoplasty surgery.
You may want to consider a holistic vet that will not poo poo the crancap, etc. approach. It truly can work and keep a dog UTI free.
You can try wiping her vulva after each urination to keep urine from pooling in the valley of the recess and preventing bacteria. Unscented baby wipes work well, or something with Aloe.
You may also want to try bag balm to sooth the irritation on her vulva.
Prayers you can get this under control and avoid the surgery.
Please let me know what you do next and how you make out.
Patty
November 24th, 2009 at 11:42 amPatty thank you for the reply this has been a journey to say the least. Yes the vet and the emergency internal medecine people have both taken a urine sample to do a culture and both times it came up clear. But my dog had already been on about 5 days of antibiotics when this happened.I was referred to the internal medecine critical care people and they have run blood panel which indicated kidney problems (she has always tested postive for that) they did a sonagram and said she has moderate kidney scarring/damage/diease. Possibly from an UTI they took xrays to look at her abdomen nothing there. Before we took her home they tested her urine again and said no infection but some blood but they were not concerned it is probly from her straining to pee. so now we are seeing friday their Dr who is going to do a scoping on her female area. Insert a scope into her and look and see if there is anything going on besides an inverted vulva. They are talking about surgery and I just dont know how difficult it will be for my dog to heal. She is such a slow healer and stays down for a long time. I just wish someone could make the decision for me. She had suffered enough with infections all her life on and off on antibiotcs.
November 24th, 2009 at 4:52 pmShe has been emptying her bladder and squatting normally the last day. Still not eating and doesnt want to drink. But she seems in ok sprits..we even played a little ball last nite… let me know how difficult the surgery and if anyone has had this done and the outcome….thank you for easing my mind….
I will ask them a couple of questions friday about stones and the holistic approach.
Deborah
She most likely still had antibiotic in her system when they did the culture. They should wait 3-5 days after meds are finished.
Make sure she does not dehydrate since she is not drinking. Pinch her skin on foreleg. It should flatten right out. If it stays up get her to the vet for fluids ASAP
I don’t know the recovery for the surgery. you can google vulvoplasty for some info.
Good luck Fri. Keep us posted.
As for the kidney damage, not sure if it will help but read my blog on kidney failure for natural supplemets to support the liver and proper levels of phosphorous.
November 25th, 2009 at 1:29 pmPatty
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:05 pmthank you for the replys i am sorry i havent sent you any more infomation on my shepherd Bella….she had her vaginal scoping last friday and we are waiting for the tissue samples they took of her uretha. I dont have the technical terms with me but the just of it is the tissue in her uretha (at the very beginning to the curve is inflamed)and is so narrow at some parts she could see why she couldnt urinate. I will send you the diagnosis later (i am at work now) along with vaginitist. so the vet said because of her history and age (5yrs)and chronic uti she suggested a chronic inflamatory diease..2nd senario cancer. We are waiting for the results….sent home with meds antibiotics and she is looking healthy as ever…..back to normal??? i cant figure it out…. so I am believing this is just severe inflamation and the medication is doing its job and now she can pee….i will list the drugs tommorrow…..thank you for your all your help ….deborah
Thank you so much for your blog, it’s very helpful
December 6th, 2009 at 11:28 amC.J, is our 5 year old Sheltie. Last spring, she started licking herself. We discovered then that her vulva was all red and inflammed. We took a urine sample and brought it to the vet. After testing, he discovered crystal oxalate in the urine. The xrays showed a stone. She had surgery to remove stone but there was no stone. He flushed her bladder of the crystal oxalate. I still feel really bad about this. Since then she’s been getting constant infections around her vulva. She’s got a recessed vulva but there had never been any problem up until this last spring. She just had surgery to remove extra skin and she’s now in recovery. Stiches are still in for another week. I find her vulva to be a big inflammed again. She can’t lick, she’s wearing a collar. We had tried to keep it clean before the surgery to avoid this with baby wipes but it didn’t help. We don’t know what more to do. it’s like eczema or something. Her vulva gets red and swollen with pustules on it.
She weighs 29 lbs. Would loosing weight help? also I just thought this morning, would emu oil or salve help her?
thank you so much
Hi Brigitte,
I have not experienced all you mention other than RVs.
It could be a bacteria in her urine causing the inflamation/infections and pustules.
I would consider a culture/sensitivity of her urine to pin point the exact bacteria to get her on the proper meds. If there is even a bacteria present
If they do find bacteria/UTI - after meds I would get her on cracaps daily and see if that helps ward off further problems.
Now that she has had the surgery I don’t see losing weight helping this. That is only something that will sometimes help a fat overweight pup to correct a vulva that was not really recessed to begin with/just caused by excess fat.
You may want to consider a second opinion to try and figure this all out if the C/S shows nothing and she is not having UTIs
Let me know how you make out. Good luck
Patty
December 6th, 2009 at 3:59 pmDeborah,
Glad she is doing better. Let me know the resuts of biopsy. I pray its just inflamation and nothing more.
This is something I have never heard of with narrowing of the urethra so I am intested in all you find out.
Update when you can
Patty
December 6th, 2009 at 4:01 pmPatty, thank you so much for your reply, I appreciate it.
December 7th, 2009 at 8:01 amIf there are no bacteria present into her urine would she benefit from crancaps and probiotics? would that be a good regime to put her on regardless?
thank you
Brigitte
Brigitte,
Crancaps adheres to the bladder wall preventing bacteria from taking hold.
so if there is bacteria in her urine the crancaps would help.
If there is no bacteria in her urine causing the outward vulva infections crancaps most likely would not help. However, it can’t hurt to give them to her and see if you get results. Talk with your bet about it and ask them to keep an open mind about holistic care. Let your vet read my blog if necessary to see that it does actually work for UTIs.
Even with no bacteria in her urine I would put her on the probiotics to put good bacteria in her system.
You may also talk with the vet about boosting her immune system a bit to see if that can help ward off these outward infections.
Vit C is an immune booster and one reason I start pups on it at 8 weeks of age: ( Note: I give 125 mg./25 lbs of weight (C with bioflavanoids for better uptake) (not Ester C, that is calcium and no good for a growing Lab pup or other large or giant breed dogs). By one year of age I give 1000mg daily. )
Do you give fish oil? Be sure and buy a product of fish “body” oil (not liver oil) that contains vit. E. If it doesn’t you need to also supplement with E to prevent defficiency.
Taken from: (while this is a newsletter on cancer it talks about immune boosting)
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter…immune-system/
“Omega 3 Fatty Acids
These essential fatty acids are thought to help fight inflammation, help support the immune system, help coat and skin integrity”
Turmeric is listed there to and I have read that it too can help with immunity.
The E will also help with immunity: 200iu daily with the fish oil would be fine. If you choose a fish oil with only about 25iu of E already in it I would consider giving additional E to further help the immune system.
http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:…&ct=clnk&gl=us
I hope the above helps. Curious as to what your vet has to say.
Patty
December 7th, 2009 at 2:53 pmI talked to my vet and he agrees with CJ being on cran caps and probiotics. He seems very well versed in the hollistic tmt which is great. Cj was placed on royal canin urinary so this summer because of thec crystal oxalate. These can occure because of diet or can be caused by uti as well. It’s the chicken and the egg, not sure if she got crystals from uti or uti from crystals. I strongly suspect the crystals from uti because of or inverted vulva and infection. I’d like to put her back on a better more complete diet but my vet is concerned about the crystals returning. This is the reason why I’d like her to take cran caps daily regardless.
December 8th, 2009 at 8:59 pmI’ll talk to my vet about fish oil, vit C and tumeric as well.
Funny thing: this is the regiment I’m on (
onus the cran cap and probiotics )
Glad your vet agrees with a holistic approach.
Here is some good info on food and crystals. It would be worth discussing it with your vet. Note calcium oxilate crystals. Thinking that is what your dog has when you say crystal oxilate.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/category/bladder-stones/
December 9th, 2009 at 10:59 amPatty…been throught the ringer the last couple of weeks.Bella had a vaginal scoping and they found that her uretha was severly inflamed and fiberious almost like going through hamburger meat is how my critical care vet discribed it. Her bladder was fine just the urethra a sample was taken and sent to the lab results were no cancer at this time.But ther literally is no uretha canal it is really damaged and sometimes she cannot eliminate. We also recieved confirmation that her kidneys never developed and are severly deformed.(which her BUM always came back too high as a pup) so damaged kidneys,urethraits,chronic uti…her sprits are good she looks fine and is as playful as always. We just had to take her in yesterday again and more tests kidney functions elevated more and just recieved a call she has another UTI…
December 9th, 2009 at 3:37 pmand they are waiting for the urine culture to come back…Currently she is taking antiobiotic,proxicam(for inflamation)mistoproprol(?)for her stomach and pepcid ac or ad for her stomach…also pain medication for her discomfort especially when elimanating.They also are wanting us to transition to a renal diet….canine renal mp? would love to hear your suggestions and commets..
We also have been prepared to talk about a stint for her uretha which is not a cure just a temporary fix.My research is not good on the stint do you know anything???? but we are not at that point yet…as long as she eleminates…thank you for being there Patty….Deborah
Wow Deborah,
You sure are dealing with a lot. I don’t have experience with this but would suggest a specialist/urologist for a second opinion before you do any type of sugery or treatment.
For now at least, with all the antibiotic I would get her on a good live organism probiotic given 2-3 hours away from the meds to put good bacteria back in her system that the meds are killing off. And continue those probs after meds are finished for a good 2-4 weeks.
I wish I had more to offer. I pray for you and your girl in this. Poor kidney function and deformed kidneys are not a good sign.
I would consider a kidney regime along with everything else. May not help but can’t hurt IMO. See my blog on KF for natural supplements and low phosphorus food. And see this link for info on feeding good “quality” protein for kidney function (even for compromised kidneys).
Make sure the renal food they want you to use is not a corn based food as most are. corn is much harder on the kidneys than meat based high quality protein. If they push a corn based food absolutely get a second opinion (maybe a holistic vet with kidney experience)
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/proteins-kidneys-senior-dogs/
I pray for you and your girl in all of this. Please keep me posted. I know its awful what you are going thru but posting back here may help someone else from what you learn as you go along.
Hugs to you and your girl big time. I will keep you both in my prayers and hope for positive updates from you.
Patty
December 9th, 2009 at 9:56 pmDeborah,
PS: have you gotten her on crancaps? I don’t have experience with her urethra issue and it sounds almost like scar tissue so to speak.
But if the urethra issue is causing her to not be able to eliminate all urine and causing a build up for bacteria to form than the crancaps may help that.
In your case, I would give her a dbl dose daily and certainly be checking her urine PH weekly at home to keep up on things.
Again I have no experience with your specific issue but don’t see my suggestions interferring. See what your vet says and keep me posted please
P.
December 9th, 2009 at 10:03 pmPatty
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:11 amI have very sad news. I had to put down my beautiful girl and my heart is breaking. It has been 1 week today. We had to take her back in to the vets because she couldnt eliminate again and they had to cathaterize her again to drain her bladder and extracted 1 liter. She was pretty unconfortable and had to be monitored overnite. The next day they took her off and she was unable to eleminate even with drugs to encourage her bladder to do so. We had at our vets recommendation taken her as of november 1 to an animal critical care internal medecine facilitie about 40 min away from our home. I think we have been 3 or 4 times and gave her the best doctors that money could buy. What they found was kidneys that never developed, diseased urethra, that biopsy came back no cancer but the doctor said she wasnt satisfied with that because of what she saw when she did the vaginal scoping. Also, the doctor’s theory was that her rear end was very weak(which it was she walked cross legged kind of cute though but not for a shepherd) and because of her spinal column not being supported by her back end the peeing could have been neurological. The bladder when the urge to pee wouldnt release so medications came into play to relax the bladder and sphinter to eliminate and to rid her of the feeling she had to go when she went. My problem with this was she was only on the medication for less than 24 hrs. But we have been battling this issue since november and watching her strain to pee was pathetic. It got really bad and when i think back I think this was going on since june. On the outside she was I am always told the most beautiful petite female german shepherd anyone has ever seen. So much personality and I feel at 5 yrs she was robbed. Also her uti they had her on one of the strongest antibiotics. Her last day alive they took another culture and I am curious of the outcome but what does it matter now? We were told that putting her down was the most humane because she couldnt live on a cather forever….and there were so many things stacked up against her. our only other options was a stint and they are fairly new in dogs doctor said she didnt recommednd it becasuse we would be putting it in the dieased urethra tissue and she could be in an incredible amount of pain. So my husband tool Bella for a walk a pretty long walk and she nipped at his hands in anticipation as they started.. I watched as my lovely girl steped out with her papa and we spent time outside with her and then took her inside to see the doctor one last time as we held her and love her good bye.It was the most awful thing i have ever done and i cant see my keyboard now because of the tears..sorry…I only wish I could have had one more day to see if the bladder med would have worked. One more day …when we got home and looked at the 8 different medications and the renal diet food…she was very sick we just couldnt see it. I just saw her strain to pee and on some days you could tell she didnt feel good.. but last weekend we had the best time. She was feeling her oats and I was loving it she played with every squeeky toy she owned..I wish i would have found your site sooner. We never even addressed the recesed vulva issue there was so much going on. Sorry this turned into a cry session thank you for all that you do to help people…Merry Christmas
patti please forgive all my spelling issues in my reply
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 amDeborah
Oh Deborah,
I am so, so sorry for your loss. I too am crying as I read your words.
You did the best you could for her please know that. And you gave her the best gift of all by taking away her pain, as hard as I know it was for you and your husband.
Take solace that she is now at Rainbow Bridge and completely healed. She is running free with no pain. You will see her again some day. Of that I have no doubt.
When you are ready please see this link:
http://www.indigo.org/rainbowbridge_ver2.html
Prayers for you and DH in your loss and grief - for your hearts to heal.
If you need anything or just to talk don’t hesitate to call me. My number is on my web site.
December 22nd, 2009 at 1:39 pmThank you Patti
December 23rd, 2009 at 11:03 amIt was truly an expiernce I never want to repeat but I know in opening your heart to an animal it is the risk you take and Bella was mine for 5 years and we live it good. I just have to get past the what if we did this or that or waited one more day.. that is what is eating me now. I have to put some faith in the Doctors and they loved Bella too..everyone was sad.. we thought this was an easy fix. Well her ashes arrived today and she is home again and we move on. And in a couple of months I hope to have a new four legged family member bouncing around here…Thank you for talking to me and I will call you sometime…Merry Christmas
Deborah
It is an awful experience I know. And one you will go thru again at some time in your life.
Don’t beat yourself up. The doctors would not have given you the advice they did if they thought they could help her. Putting a dog down is the worst part of their job and they would not do it if they didn’t feel it was best for Bella.
Sending you hugs to get thru this difficult time.
Patty
December 23rd, 2009 at 12:00 pmThank you Patti
December 29th, 2009 at 2:18 pmDeborah
Hey, Just wanted to let you know that your site isn’t loading properly on my iPhone. Do you know if there’s some setting I need to use to make it show properly? Everything is out of line.
January 8th, 2010 at 12:40 amWith regards to the iphone, please email customer service and we will look into this for you. Please let us know specifically what page(s) are not displaying properly. I just went through several pages on this site on an iphone and it all rendered properly so id like a little more info to help you better.
Thanks,
January 8th, 2010 at 10:18 amMichael
I have a 4 month old Labradoodle who I just discovered has an inverted vulva that looks like the photo you have posted. She was already spayed when I got her at 3 months. I just took her to the vet and asked about it. He gave me Animax ointment (nystatin-neomycin sulfate-thiostrepton-triamcinolone acetonide oinment) to apply twice daily for a few days. She already licks her vuvla often, and is continuing to do so after I apply the ointment. I don’t think she has a UTI, but she does often squat twice. The first time I see a regular urine stream, but can’t see if there is on the second round. The second time she squats, it’s just for a few seconds. I am obviously concerned about how to treat this and what may happen in the future. My questions are: (1) How do I know if she has a UTI? (2) What do I do in general to keep her healthy, since she has already been spayed before her first heat? (3) Should I consider surgery as a preventative measure? (4) At what age can she have the corrective surgery? (5) Are there ointments that act as a moisture barrier that you can recommend? (I read that Desitin isn’t good since zinc is poisonous for dogs.) Thanks for any help you can offer!
January 31st, 2010 at 1:57 amHi Aimee,
The only way to truly know if she has a UTI is to test PH at home or take a urine sample to vet. collect urine the way I describe in my blog. If it is positive you may need antibiotics or dbl dose on crancaps. Be sure and test urine PH at home too since your girl may be prone to infection from the RV.
Signs of UTI are frequent squatting, expelling or not expelling urine, excessive drinking “can” be one, accidents in the house or while sleeping. Her squating often could be a UTI, I would take a sample to vet to be sure.
Wipe her vulva with unscented baby wipes each time she goes to remove the urine that is pooled in the valley of the RV. (I have never had to use ointment - unless your girls vulva is sore and raw looking)
I would not consider the surgery at this point. Follow my regime even if you have to keep her on crancaps for life. If they keep her UTI free, no need for the surgery.
The only time I would consider the surgery is if I could not keep a dog UTI free with crancaps and had to constantly use antibiotics. As for age of the surgery, not sure but I would wait till she is older.
Also do not let a vet without a good amount of experience in this procedure do the surgery.
not sure about ointment for moisture barrier, never used them. And she is just going to lick them off if you are not around to stop her.
Good luck and let me know how you make out.
Patty
January 31st, 2010 at 2:53 pmhi Patty,
I have my first litter of rough collie puppies and I believe one of them has a recessed vulva. They are six weeks now and I have noticed for a few weeks that her back legs are always wet from pee. Then one day I was trimming the wet fur (I thought it was an immaturity problem like she hadn’t figured out how to squat properly when peeing) and I noticed she was peeing in her sleep. I took her to the vet and she has a UTI. It is now her third day on amoxicillin and she is still wet with pee in the area around her vulva. I compared the shape of the vulva to her sisters and they all look the same to me? Could she possibly just have a UTI and NOT a recessed vulva? How common is it for puppies to get a UTI without the RV problem? Anyway I am waiting to see how things turn out. Thank you for all the information on this blog, it has been very helpful!
Kate
February 2nd, 2010 at 1:43 amHi Kate,
I have not seen a lot of cases of UTI in young pups without a RV but I think the vet may tell you it is not uncommon. What did vet say about it?
If amoxy is the right drug for the type of bacteria she has than it should have an effect by now and I would think the leaking would have stopped, call and ask the vet. Did the vet do a culture/sensitivity to pinpoint the bacteria?
My concern is this pup leaking urine all the time. Either it is a very severe infection or this pup needs to be checked for an ectopic ureter. This causes a pup to leak urine from birth. She may have had this problem from birth but with mom always cleaning pups you may not have noticed. Does she leak when you are holding her? Another sign of possible EU.
You need to call and discuss this with the vet and see what they say.
If this is a UTI and not EU I would also get this pup on the crancaps for prevention. Does her vulva (or her sisters) look like the pic above? It is possible more than one pup has a RV. I had 2 in a litter.
Please keep me posted.
Patty
February 2nd, 2010 at 11:00 amHi Patty,
I have an update on Chloe the golden retriever.
It’s been 3 months of daily doses of crancaps (2,000 mg), probiotics (8 billion), D-mannose (1,000 mg), and 1 tblsp of raw apple cider vinegar and after 2 negative cystos, Chloe’s latest culture came back with an infection again (not ecoli). She had 2 accidents this past week, so I assumed she was having an active infection (and she was).
At this point my vet suggests we do the vulvaplasty surgery and I concur since none of the natural methods have kept her clear. The folds around her vulva are really deep. I’m continuing her with the cranberry, etc. and she’ll start 3 weeks of cephalexan and as soon as she’s well enough, I’m going to go the surgical route.
She’s 10.5 yrs old and not getting any younger, and I don’t want her to have to stay on antibiotics for the rest of her life, which is what this is turning into.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:26 pmHi Natalie,
I am so sorry to hear the holistic approach is not working, You must be so dissappointed.
In a case where the only way to control constant UTIs is a life time of antibiotic, than i do agree with the surgery.
If I did not mention to you in the past, be sure your vet has experience with vulvoplasty. Ask how many he has done and have they been successful.
Good luck. I pray the surgery does the trick. Please do let me know how it goes and update me her recovery.
Picks of the post OP surgery (will not be pretty) would be great to share here on my blog so others can see this and not let their vet push it without at least trying the holistic approach first.
If you would share you can email them to me and I can download them here. Let me know.
Patty
February 9th, 2010 at 5:46 pmWhat a relief to find your website. I have had dogs all my life and have never heard of this condition. I have a rescue Collie that has had a couple of infections in a row. I am excited to try the Cran caps. Can you tell me how many mg for a 90lb, dog? Thanks, Eileen
February 9th, 2010 at 9:09 pmHi Patty,
Yes I’m *very* disappointed, esp. because I was a fanatic about making sure my dog got the right doses of supplements every day. I know though, I did everything I could from a natural supplement standpoint and really gave it a good, long try. Actually it’s been 4 months, not 3, since we started the cranberry/D-mannose/probiotic regimen. My vet was fully on-board with this approach and we even consulted the local university vet hospital.
I asked how many surgeries the lead surgeon (who will do Chloe’s procedure) has done and he’s done many (I think they said he’s done at least 20) with good outcomes overall. Of course there’s no guarantee, but it should help to get rid of all that excess skin, fatty tissue, and give her a better chance from a structural standpoint. I plan to continue her on the supplements since they don’t hurt her and they do help flush out the bladder–perhaps I’ll eventually be able to get her on a lower dose of cranberry (she’s at 2,000 mg now).
I’ll take pictures and share them, yes. Chloe’s surgery is scheduled for March 4th and she’s on antibiotics for now.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:30 pmNatalie,
you definately did all you could. Glad to hear the surgeon is seasoned in the procedure.
Thanks for sharing pics.
Patty
February 10th, 2010 at 11:24 amEileen,
Weight does not matter. Use the amount I mention above and dbl up if PH elevates.
Good luck, let me know how you make out.
Patty
February 10th, 2010 at 11:25 amDear Patty: I am so pleased to come across your website and see how generous you are with time and advice. What a great resource to others. So, I figured I would ask your thoughts with my dog Roxanne. Roxanne is probably around 5 years old. She was spayed when rescued about 4 years ago. Here is the nutshell version: about 2 years ago I noticed what seemed like dried crusty blood all around her vulva. along with very raw skin. All urine tests came back normal. Therefore, the blood did not appear to be coming from her urethra or a urinary condition. Either it was coming from her vagina, or it was being caused by licking. I did not think licking alone could cause the extensive irritation. A vaginal culture turned up staph. A trip to a specialist left us with antibiotics that cleared it up. However, it’s now come back about three months later. She does not have a recesssed vulva as far as I can tell, but the specialist recommended surgery as she said Roxanne’s vulva is a bit “tucked up” or something like that and this would continue to re-occur because bacteria is getting trapped around her vulva. I am not sure if this explains all the symptoms. I am going to have an ultrasound first as I keep thinking that the blood may be coming from an internal source. Other than this she is in perfect health. Strangely enough, she had severe skin irritation along her belly last year that caused hair loss and raw skin, but that cleared up after eliminating dairy from her diet. Unfortunately the diet change did not seem to improve the condition around her vulva.
If you have any other thoughts, I would appreciate them! I would like to avoid surgery if at all possible. Roxanne is a marker, I think she learned that from my older dog (also female), but while she pees constantly on walks, she can hold it in all day if she needs to without any stress as far as I can tell.
Thanks!
February 13th, 2010 at 7:23 pmamy
Hi Amy,
““tucked up” or something like that and this would continue to re-occur because bacteria is getting trapped around her vulva.”
If this is the case than it is a recess but may just not be severe.
I would get her on the crancaps to prevent infection. Although I am not sure if it will work for Staff - but worth a try (most likely will need a good amount of antibiotic to completely get rid of the staff) and than see if you can keep her infection free with the crancaps and hopefully prevent surgery.
The only time I would consider surgery is if you can’t keep a dog infection free without antibiotic. A lifetime of antibiotic is not good.
Also be sure and give probiotic with all the antibiotic she is on - follow my instructions in my blog.
I don’t have experience with staff but do know it can take time to clear up so be patient before considering surgery.
Hot spots in dogs are aggrivated from the dog licking and can be very severe. This could be the cause of your girls irritation.
Since you don’t know the cause of the blood the ultra sound is a good idea. Let me know what it shows.
Praying you can avoid the surgery and the US will give you answers and not show anything serious.
Let me know if you have more questions and I will try to help.
Patty
February 15th, 2010 at 12:40 pmHi Patty: thanks for the response! We were at the vet today for the ultrasound. Everything looked normal, including uterine stump, so the vet ruled out an internal cause. She said my dog’s vulva was not inverted, but her problem is more the location of the vulva–if that makes any sense. They look at her from the rear to see the location of the vulva and say “tucked up” meaning that it is in an abnormal location where it is more likely to gather bacteria, I guess. So it appears to be a skin infection, not a UTI. I know she doesn’t lick much because I work from home and would notice. I would think she could keep herself clean, but I guess that is not fool-proof! I will try the cran-caps — they can’t hurt. This vet - the general vet - did not recommend surgery. It is the dermatologist specialist that recommended it. So, I will try the cran-caps, and I guess I can give her a wipe at the end of the day to try to keep her clean.
Thanks again for helping!
February 16th, 2010 at 6:12 pmamy
Hi Amy,
Glad the US was clear.
Hoping the crancaps will help. and wiping her is a good idea. I would do this each time she urinates if you can.
Let me know how she does.
Patty
February 17th, 2010 at 10:55 amThank you so much! I really appreciate your taking the time to help me and others. It is hard to find good information about this.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:58 pmCan’t believe that so many others have the UTI problem! My 11-yr old maltese/Pom cross has had a UTI since we got her at 4 months. She was periodically symptom and bacteria free however, of late, has developed antibiotic resistant e coli infection. She is now on a quinolone (only drug that is not resistant) but still has an odd vaginal discharge. Interestingly, her Ph is normal! And yet, the culture reads bacterial infection. She drives us crazy asking to go out at night. I don’t know what else to do at this point She has a moderate RV - not as extreme as your photo example. But vulvoplasty only works in 67% of cases. I have been washing her with antibacterial cleanser and applying triacomb (an antifungal, antibacterial, ) to the affected area to make her more comfortable. It seems to settle her down - but he infection rages on. She has hair in her vulva and a slight discharge. Would Canesten cream be better - could she have a chronic yeast infection? The vet has not suggested a swab (too hard to get a pure culture I guess). I’m worried that cran might give her an upset stomach as she smacks her lips alot (indicating acid reflux?)
Someone must have a definitive solution - do you have any experience with antifungal creams in dogs?
February 24th, 2010 at 9:30 pmPS; Why would the pH be normal if she has an infection??
February 24th, 2010 at 9:32 pmHi Suzi,
I am so sorry for all you are dealing with.
I don’t have experience with e coli but the crancaps may help and I don’t think they would upset her stomach.
I also have never used antifungal creams but am thinking of oil of oregano (an antifungal) I give it in capsule form 1 per day. Am checking with a friend on this regarding e coli and will get back to you. She knows a lot about holistic and chinese meds for dogs.
I don’t understand why her PH is normal if there is an infection. Unless the infection is vaginal and not urinary.
If she does have a yeast problem (discharge) than antibiotic will not help yeast, only helps bacteria. The discharge could be vaginitis. Did she have this as a pup prior to spay? May be best to have the vet do a vaginal swab to check for yeast, etc.
I will get back to you on the oil of oregano (OoO) or any other suggestions my friend may have.
For now I would try her on the crancaps in the hope it can help fight e coli.
But remember cran caps work in the bladder/urinary tract so it may not help if this turns out to be a vaginal infection.
If you do the swab and it turns out to be yeast apple cider viniger can help ward off yeast. I give 1 1/2 tspns in each meal (2 meals/day) daily.
Patty
February 25th, 2010 at 11:38 amPS: talk with the vet about the apple cider viniger due to the possibility of acid reflux.
Also ask about over the counter human meds for the acid reflux.
February 25th, 2010 at 11:40 amSuzi,
Heard back from my friend and she said she would try the Canesten cream topically, it can’t hurt.
And, OoO won’t hurt your dog along with cran caps.
Good luck and keep me posted.
March 2nd, 2010 at 3:40 pmHi Patty,
Tomorrow is vulvaplasty day for Chloe. I’ll be dropping her off early and then waiting anxiously. She’ll stay overnight at the vet hospital and, if all goes well, will come home on Fri. I’ve still got her on cranberry and probiotics and she just finished a 3-week course of cephelexin. I will continue the supplements even after the surgery. Please say a little prayer that all goes well for my golden girl tomorrow. I’ll let you know how it went.
March 3rd, 2010 at 11:59 pmNatlie,
Prayers for sweet Chloe that the surgery will put a stop to her issues and that she will heal quickly.
Hugs to you while you wait, I know the stress..
Keep me posted when you have time.
Patty
March 4th, 2010 at 12:50 pmGood news! Talked to Chloe’s surgeon about an hr ago and she did great, he said. He said her folds were really deep and her condition would only have worsened with infections getting more severe, so this was the right thing to do and the right time to get it done (before things really escalated and got bad).
He said they took pictures ‘before’ and ‘after’ so I plan to get copies of those and I will share them.
I’ll pick her up tomorrow. She’ll have 1 more week of antibiotics. I will continue her on supplements (Cran + Probiotics) ongoing.
March 4th, 2010 at 3:13 pmNatalie,
So glad to hear the surgery went so well.
Prayers she recovers quickly.
Look forward to the before and after pics. Thanks for sharing them.
Make sure you give the probiotic 2-3 hours away from the antibiotic and when meds are finished continue with probiotic for 2-4 weeks. The crancaps you can give at any time.
Patty
March 4th, 2010 at 3:54 pmHi Patty,
Yep, I give Chloe the probiotic capsule with her ‘lunchtime’ meal, which is 5+ hrs after her morning antibiotic dose and 6+ hrs before her evening antibiotic dose. I give her the cranberry with her breakfast and dinner. She also gets omega 3/fish oil, glucosamine/chondroitan/MSM. I have pill containers with everything pre-measured and portioned out and ready to go so I don’t have to think about what pill to give her when. I’ve been using that approach for years (the pill containers) and it was easy to add in the cranberry and probiotic regimen.
Oh and Chloe’s down about 5 lbs, with another 4 or 5 lbs to go to reach goal weight. She’s getting LOTS of extra low cal veggies to make up for the reduction in amount of kibble. She loves broccoli and cauliflower and carrots. I’m not joking when I say she eats better than me (certainly healthier)!
March 4th, 2010 at 8:36 pmHi Natalie,
Sounds like you are good to go and have it all under control.
Kudos for you for all you do for Chloe.
Keep me posted on her recovery.
Patty
March 4th, 2010 at 8:47 pmHi Patty, I have been reading all of these posts for hours now. I have a 19 week old G. Shep. puppy, Bella who was just spayed on Wed. We got her the end of Dec. and noticed strong urine smell, took to vet and put on Clavomax, contined it again for 10 more days and then we notice her urininating and blood drops in her urine in the snow. They went ahead a spayed her instead of the end of March to see if the nonstop infection was being caused by stones, pockets around the bladder…nothing! $1,000 later we know nothing! We are waiting for her bladder biospie to come back. WBC was high,vet said 100;s of bacteria in her vagina. Before surgery had urine testing done and it showed ecoli. Was told she has recessed vulva, not a bad case. We did not know anything about waiting til she had her first “heat”. The vet told us that it would probably correct itself in time so we shouldnt’ have to worry about surgery at this time. Not real good with dog parts, but is the vulva the larger part in picture? Bella is 19 weeks old and currently on amoxitabs til we get results from surgery. They were talking about putting her on Baytril, which looking at can cause cartlidge damage when used long term. The clavomax and Amoxitabs are not keeping the infection away. Could you pls. tell me where I can purchase Crantabs and what strength and how often we can give them to Bella. Also, she currently eats Iams Puppy Food/Large Breed…is there a better food she should be eating? Your help is very appreciated!!!
March 5th, 2010 at 11:03 pmHi Nancy,
Her vulva is not going to correct at this point. The only time I know of one correcting without going thru a heat cycle is when young pups 6-8 weeks old are too chubby (fat causing the recess) and when the pup grows a bit the vulva will correct.
I would get her on the crancaps 1 per day and test urine ph at home as I mention above. It won’t hurt to keep her on them for life if she has issues with UTIs. I know someone that had good results using crancaps for e coli.
There is a link to where to get both crancaps and PH strips in my blog above.
The vulva is the round are in the pic that has the valley around it.
Hoping you get good results on the biopsy. Keep us posted.
Patty
March 6th, 2010 at 12:29 pmThank you Patty! I was not home when vet called and left message, but was told that all three biopsies had ecoli. He wants us to continue on the same Amoxitab antiobiotics she has been on. Plan to call tomorrow. Any ideas where she may of gotten ecoli? We have been battling this since we got her the end of Dec. We are switching her Royal Canine puppy food from Iams, in hopes of it being tailored for the G. Shep. it helping with any other issues! Will get the crancaps going, have been giving her a shot glass full of cranberry juice on her food twice a day for the past couple days…she seems to like it! If getting cranberry tablets from GNC what would the dosage be? I googled and saw a 400mg/20 lbs. of dog each day. My question to our vet is if she was on the Amoxitabs before and the ecoli came back or is still there…doesn’t this mean they are not working? The good thing…..this is not effecting her play or eating…she is wild!! Thank you Patti for your help. If you know the dosage pls. let me know!
March 7th, 2010 at 2:06 pmPatti….question…these cranberry capsules from GNC…do you open the capsule up and put in food or just put in cheese to get puppy to eat it? These on the link are 500 mg, do you recommend just one a day?
March 7th, 2010 at 2:16 pmNancy,
No idea how she got e coli but have heard of cases where the vulva is too close to the rectum and stool getting on the vulva can cause it.
I would give her 1 crancap/day for maintenance(GNC or Progressive brand) and check PH. If elevated give 2/day for 2 weeks and check PH again as I mention in my blog.
I put the whole capsule right in meals.
Keep in mind that concentrate from fruit(Progressive) is better than from juice (GNC) according to my research.
She may not have been on the amox. long enough to get rid of the e coli. I assume since they pinpointed the exact bacteria that amox. is the right med for e coli.
Patty
March 8th, 2010 at 12:11 pmTHANK YOU Patty!! Its been pretty frustrating and just want her to be better! You have made me feel much more comfortable about everything and just wanted to say “THANKS”, it is much appreciated! Praying this ends for Bella soon!
March 8th, 2010 at 4:58 pmHi Patty! Quick update, Dr. is putting her on Marbofloxin for 10 days, not sure why the Amoxicillan didn’t clear it up. Praying this will clear it up! Thanks again for your advice!
March 8th, 2010 at 9:22 pmNancy,
I have no experience with e coli but I think it can be tough to get rid of. Hopefully the new med will do it.
I pray this ends for Bella soon too.
Glad I could ease your mind a bit.
Patty
March 9th, 2010 at 11:47 amHi Patty,
Well, I think it’s time for some good news on this blog. I am so happy to give my update. It’s been a whole year since Maggie has had a UTI! I still give her 500 mg crancap 2x/day.
I was going to try a decrease but was hesitant and kept putting it off. Here is my question - her pH has been about 6.0 for many months. Is this too low for the long term? Do you think I should try a decrease? I would be vigilant about checking pH.
Nancy, Maggie’s UTIs were caused by e coli. We never determined the cause. She was not one to clean herself excessively, but I did keep the fur around her vulva and rectum closely trimmed. Maggie is a Golden and very furry – maybe not as much of an issue for Bella.
I looked up Maggie’s records. She was put on Clavamox for her 1st UTI. When it reoccurred, we did the C&S. It showed she was sensitive to several antibiotics. The vet decided to put her on Smz-Tmp, a sulfa med that has been around a while. Long story short, she was on this med for a total of 8 weeks. Meanwhile we found Patty, started crancaps, and voila, here we are with a success story.
To Nancy and everyone struggling to find resolution, keep asking questions and searching for info. I wish you all the best.
Patty, again I thank you.
Jill
March 10th, 2010 at 9:00 pmJill,
this is so great to here. You absolutely can cut her crancaps back if she is staying in normal PH range 5.5-7
6 is a great range to keep her in. that is right in the mid of normal.
absolutely try cutting her back on crancaps, just keep checking her urine PH to be sure she stays in range.
There are times if you know your dog well enough and keep up on PH that you can stop the crancaps and when you see issues or elevated PH you go back on crancaps.
You go girl. You are doing a great job!!!!
Kudos to you!!!!!!
P.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:32 pmPS Jill:
thanks so much for the update.
It means a lot to me (especially since I recommend the regime) and others looking for help.
Anyone else getting good results, its much appreciated to see you post back here.
And that goes for those of you who still have issues and this regime is not helping.
Please come back or contact me privately for more help.
Please know helping others with their dogs is a passion in my life. If I don’t have the answer
March 10th, 2010 at 9:42 pmI will help you in your research to find the right answer
P.
Patti and Jill…thank you! Bella is tolerating the marbofloxin well, we pray this clears it up! Patti, not much hair for Bella in the area but will surely keep an eye on it. We have been using the baby wipes several times a day, she is not having any more discharge like symptoms so hoping we are getting close to being healthy! I did ask Dr. from her surgery what her PH was, it was 7. Going to keep her on the cranberry capsules from her on out! I asked my vet about the crancaps…he said he didn’t think they would make a difference….well we are surely going to see about that! Will keep you posted!
March 11th, 2010 at 10:08 amJill, how old is Maggie? Bella is now 20 weeks old…she is a wild puppy, amazes me that she is not even aware of the infection (ecoli) in her for months! So glad to hear your dog is doing great, Patti we are so thankful for your help!
March 11th, 2010 at 10:10 amNancy,
Glad to hear Bella is tolerating the meds and praying it clears it up too.
Patty
March 11th, 2010 at 11:56 amI have quickly scanned some of the blogs about RV; I have a 9 year old Basset- Rosey Belle. She went thru her first heat before she was spayed. As I look back I believe she has had symptoms of this problem for several years. Each time i mentioned the discharge she had to a vet they brushed the topic off. Only after paying huge money to an internal med vet did he tell us she has RV. Now our vet has recommended surgery. Rosey has been thru 4 long treatment periods on antibiotics, and the vets test her pH. But I can’t remember what hers was, but I think she was towards the alkaline side of the scale. The IM vet said cranberry ONLY helps for certain kinds of e-coli, and you have to give at least 400 mg twice daily. I put her on pet-dophilus on my own. Found it at the human vitamin store. Someone has also told me of D- Mannose for recurring bladder infections.
Appreciate you help! Thanks. Joy
March 11th, 2010 at 7:35 pmSo, I am scared to death for her to have surgery. but scared not to as I fear the effects of long term antibiotic treatment.
Any words of wisdom you can share would be much appreciated!
She is overweight, and many dogfoods send her out to eat grass, usually durng the night keeping both dogs and humans awake much of the night-or she just wont eat them.. Did you ever meet a picky Basset!!
Joy,
You mention a discharge. This is not something you see with UTIs but is more likely vaginitis. What color is the discharge?
See this link:
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/vaginitis_puppy_acne_demodectic_mange.htm
Did the vet do a culture and sensativity to diagnose e coli? If a C/S has not been done your dog was most likely on the wrong antibiotic and the reason the infection keeps coming back.
Her being overweight could be the cause of the RV (surprised her first heat did not correct it). Consider a grain free food - some dogs lose weight on them.
I personally would get her on the crancaps and test PH at home and see how she does. If you can keep her UTI free this way than I would not do the surgery.
If in fact she even has had UTIs (as mentioned the discharge tells me vaginitis - although you can have both issues).
If it is just vaginitis the surgery won’t help IMO. The surgery is to prevent urine from pooling around the vulva and bacteria setting in. Vaginitis is not bacteria.
Patty
March 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pmYes, Rosey has had “something” around her vulva for years, sticky/sometimes bad odor. I kept tryig whatever I knew to keep her clean. Also redness and sticky in the fold of her tummy- vet calls it her “udder”. Some schools of thought insinuate urine could scald the area leaving it irritated. Yes a C & S was done at least 2-3 times. Not the first time. After she kept showing back up with infection symptoms they started doing more tests. Past 2-3 times they have done the needle straight into the bladder to get her urine sample. Since her last round of treatment with antibiotics - no more discharge. Of course maybe I confused matters by adding the pet-dophilus (probiotic powder) not sure if that would have impacted vaginitis. Maybe she had a yeast infection? I really am going to try the crancaps and ph testing as I sincerely don’t want to take her for surgery.
March 12th, 2010 at 8:31 pmSo, your whole plan for the cran caps, etc…where is this whole regime?
Also grain free food…do you have one in mind?
Thank you!
Joy
Nancy, Maggie will be 2 years old in April and less of a wild child, although I do miss those crazy days. When she was 1st diagnosed with UTI, I would have never known, because she was so full of energy. I never saw a discharge, only some bloody, oily and nasty smelling urine on the floor. This was 3 weeks after her spay and I freaked out.
Our vet admitted to not knowing much about crancaps, but said it couldn’t hurt, and recommended a vulvoplasty (that we never did). When we finally got in to see our holistic vet, she applauded us for giving the crancaps. Bottom line, most traditionally trained vets know little about alternative methods and nutrition. Thank God we have Patty and all this info at our fingertips with a little searching.
Joy, we started with 2000 mg crancaps 2x/day and tapered down. We learned a lot about nutrition at our consults with the holistic vet. I agree with Patty that trying to help Rosey Belle with a little weight reduction may help. It was easy for us to incorporate healthy and natural foods because Maggie likes just about everything!
Best of luck to everyone, Jill
March 12th, 2010 at 10:07 pmThe probiotics would not make her issues worse IMO, it can only help.
March 13th, 2010 at 11:25 amGo to the top of the blog and see where I talk about giving crancaps and PH testing.
I feed Orijen grain free but there are many brands on the market. Not sure what would be best for a Bassett or if it would matter which one you feed.
www.championpetfoods.com
It does sound like she also had/has vaginitis. The vet should be able to take a vaginal swab to see if it is yeast. If so apple cider viniger (organic) can help ward off yeast. I give 1 tbsp in food daily with water added. This works for yeasty ear problems too.
First day off the antiobiotics for Bella….praying that her ecoli infections are gone….come on CRANCAPS!!!! Will keep you posted on Bella!
March 18th, 2010 at 4:59 pmNancy
I am praying too…..
come on crancaps!!!!!
I am right there with you!!!!!!
P.
March 18th, 2010 at 7:26 pmHelp…… We have a 4 month old choco lab puppy who has had uti one after another has been on series of antibiotics. I have also included vit c tabs 500 mg along with 2500 mg of cranberry caps 2x’s daily and Uva Urisa 2 x’s daily PH is still elevated. The vet ordered urine culture just got results no bacteria not sure if this is because she is and was on an antibiotic when tested. She does well as long as she is on an antibiotic 2 days off and she is having accidents again in house, needs to go out very very often and crying out when she urinates. She does have an inverted vulva which we wipe down with warmed baby wipes after she goes to the bathroom. Any suggestions ??? She is the sweetest little girl.
March 30th, 2010 at 3:49 pmHi Kelly,
The culture was most likely masked by the antibiotic. When testing or retesting the dog should be off antibiotic for 3-5 days so you don’t get a false negative.
Are you using crancaps from fruit concentrate. This is more potent than from juice. Can you give me a link to the product you are using? and what is Uva Urisa (what is in it), never heard of it. Also make sure your Vit. C does not have calcium (Ester C is calcium) you don’t want that for a growing Lab.
Are they sure she does not have any stones - the crying out makes me think this even though she is so young. But if she has had many infections in her 4 months - did any urine samples show crystals? Crystals can clump together causing stones which are painful.
Patty
March 31st, 2010 at 1:15 pmHi Patty -
I have a 3 yr old black lab with an incorrectly formed vulva - in fact you can’t see it unless you pull back her fur. She has never been diagnosed w/ a UTI though. The reason I took her to the vet was due to her leaking urine, particularly in the evening after she’s been inside for an hour or two, a small puddle or drips around the house. She doesn’t appear to realize that she has done so. She also wets her bed if I’m gone for more than about 4 hours - but is hanging her head when that happens. These issues have been going on and off for her whole life. Unfortunately she was spayed prior to her first heat and nothing was mentioned about her vulva at that time.
The vet ran thorough urine and blood tests and did an ultrasound to rule out any bladder issues. He says she’s completely healthy except for the vulva defect. He’s checked w/ 3 surgeons in our area about doing the surgery and only one would commit to a success rate. He said close to 75% chance it would stop her leaking. The vets feel that urine is pooling in her vulva and leaking out later. My husband thinks it has to do with her being tired since it seems to only happen in the evening and is quite awhile after she’s been out. We’ve noticed that it’s better, but not perfect, if we limit her water intake in the evening but I don’t want that to cause other problems. We also don’t want to put her through the surgery if it won’t fix the problem.
Do you have any suggestions on the leaking issue?
March 31st, 2010 at 5:04 pmI adopted a rescue pup who was spayed at 6 months of age. After having her a couple weeks I realized she had a UTI, it was treated and came back again a month later. I started researching and I found your site and realized she has a recessed vulva. I’m going to be following your holisitc protocol and hope it works because I fear the future doesn’t bode well considering she has already suffered through two UTI’s in less than two months. Do you think I would be wise to consult the vet about the surgery if the UTI’s persist?
March 31st, 2010 at 5:46 pmHi Jeanette,
Your girl may not be having issues from her recessed vulva since she is not getting UTIs. She may have spay incontinence and if that is the case, surgery to correct her RV will not stop her night time leaking.
Have you tried the carncap approach to see if you get results. That is the first thing I would do.
If that does not work there are meds for incontinence but some have side effects (Proin comes to mind).
I know people giving 1/4 cup of soy milk daily which stops incontinence.
worth a try. But please know if your girl has infections, that is not the same as incontinence and the soy will not stop the infections.
The other thing I question if she has been leaking urine her whole life (although I don’t see this happening only at night) is to be sure she does not have an ectopic ureter. Only Ultra Sound can determine that.
It sounds to me like you need a second opinion from another vet.
The amount of urine that would pool in her recessed vulva that could leak out would be very, very minimal. How much leaking are you seeing on her bed at night?
Patty
March 31st, 2010 at 8:18 pmTara,
Please try my method with the crancaps and testing PH at home before you consider surgery.
You may be just fine without surger.
come back here, email me privately or call me before you consider surgery please.
You can get all my contact info thru my web site.
I will be away for the holiday but back on Monday.
www.snowcolabradors.com
Hang in there
Patty
March 31st, 2010 at 8:22 pmThanks Patty. I haven’t tried the cran caps yet since Pepper hasn’t had UTIs but I will. Soy milk too - worth a shot. She doesn’t leak overnight if we let her out before we go to bed and right when we get up - usually about 8 hours. We did have an ultrasound done that confirmed she doesn’t have an ectopic ureter. When she does leak in the evenings it’s usually small puddles that are on her pet bed or the carpet so it’s hard to say how much. I’d guess a few tablespoons sometime a bit more. It is consistently after she’s been in for awhile, so I don’t think it’s due to pooling in her vulva. We have tried cutting down water after her dinner and that’s helped a lot.
April 10th, 2010 at 11:00 pmGood luck Jeannette. Let me know how she does on the crancaps and soy. You might want to try the crancaps alone first for a couple (2-3) weeks and see what happens.
Patty
April 12th, 2010 at 10:23 amPatti….so far so good with Bella! Those crancaps really do work! Jeanette…our 6 months old G. Shep, Bella has what your pup does, we ended up having to put her on Marboflax, very strong antiobiotic after three diff. rounds of antiobiotics as she had UTI with ecoli that would not clear up. She has been on Crancaps now for a month…..she is clear!!! PLEASE try it before surgery, perhaps also your antiobiotic did not work for her like Bella….whom also has a vulva issue. We use unscented baby wipes and wipe her in the morning and evening, very funny, she comes in I grab a wipe and she knows to lay down and lift her leg!!! Give them a try!!!
April 14th, 2010 at 8:03 amNancy,
That is great news!!! Be sure and update your vet since they did not think crancaps would make a difference.
Patty
April 17th, 2010 at 11:43 amWill do! She did not have any more blood when urinating or difficulty sometimes when urinating so she was did not have any more urine tests ran, they said they wouldn’t need to unless symptoms were there, so we believe the antiobiotic and the crancaps did it this time! She will be on them from here on out! Do you think we should remain giving her them twice a day still or cut her down to 1 a day now?
April 17th, 2010 at 5:54 pmHi Patty,
April 18th, 2010 at 10:39 amI sure hope you can help me. I have a Chihuahua that is 6 years old and she is overweight (she weighs 12.9 pounds). December 2009, she was diagnosed with vaginitis and put on Clavamox. The infection healed, and last week I had to take her back to the vet for the same thing. They put her on Baytril and Panalog ointment. I don’t think this round of antibiotics is helping much. The vet wants to do surgery on her, and I really don’t want to do that unless it is really necessary. I keep her clean, using baby wipes every day on her. Do you think the carnberry capsule treatment will work for her? If so, what dosage would you recommend? I am willing to do whatever it takes to get her better. Can I use any kind of cream on her–like diaper rash cream or a female cream? Please help
Hi Nancy,
Does your girl have a recessed vulva? Vaginitis is not caused by RV but UTIs are (urinary tract infection). Antibiotics will not help vaginitis because it is not a bacteria but rather a fungus/yeast. The meds are most likely masking the vaginitis and
the reason it comes back when meds are finished/out of her system.
There is a chance that a discharge (you usually see with vaginitis) is a bacteria and not
vaginitis at all. The vet should do a vaginal smear and send it to the lab for culture.
If they grow a bacteria they will know exactly what type and be able to recommend the proper antibiotic. If no bacteria than I would say it is vaginitis.
If culture shows fungus/yeast (not sure that would show up in a culture but should under a microscope) than there are
holistic things like oil of oregano, alfalfa (both antifungals) that you can give orally for fungus. Not sure of the dose for such a small dog. (you may want to consult a
holistic vet). I get both at GNC. Apple cider viniger can also help ward off yeast (Braggs organic brand from GNC). I would give about a tspn or less/day in food with water added for a small dog but check with holistic vet. (I don’t have experience with 12 lb dogs)
Did you read the vaginitis remarks from Dr. Hutch on my blog?
http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/vaginitis_puppy_acne_demodectic_mange.htm
IMO surgery will not stop vaginitis. And if there is no RV than what surgery is your vet
talking about? If she is overweight it could be the cause of a RV and dropping weight can correct it. If she is recessed has she been that way since you got her (assuming you got her at 8 weeks)? If so than she was born with it.
I honestly have never used crancaps for vaginitis (only UTIs) so not sure if it will
help/work but its worth a try.
The crancap you mention in your email that you use for yourself sounds like a good dose for a small dog. You can put the
pill in her food or open it into the food or use cheese. However she will eat it.
Has the vet done a urinalysis? What is her PH?
I would think the panalog ointment would help with irritation. You have to be careful what you use because she will most likely lick herself and be ingesting the cream.
Hope I have answered all your questions. I agree with trying the crancaps, etc. before
doing surgery (if this is a RV). If she is having UTIs than you should also be testing urine PH as I mention in my blog to adjust crancap dose as needed and try to avoid continuous antibiotics.
Patty
April 18th, 2010 at 12:28 pmNo. But now i will. Thanks for that.
April 18th, 2010 at 10:17 pmMy new dog, a 9 month old mixed breed, has been having issues with both vaginitis and recurrent bladder infections since I adopted her from a rescue three months ago. I started researching and I found your blog and realized that she most definitely has an inverted vulva and of course she was already spayed when I got her. After her second infection in as many months I implemented your tips, giving her cranberry supplements and a probiotic everyday and also wiping her at least twice a day. Despite my faithful efforts she once again has a bladder infection less than three weeks after her last one. I’m getting frustrated and feel awful for her. I suppose I’m looking for any advice, I certainly hope this doesn’t become a problem for the entire life of my dog. How horrible for her! If things don’t get better I’m going to seriously consider a vulvoplasty but from what I read they can only be performed after 2 years of age and I cannot imagine dealing with constant infections for the next year. Plus, a vulvoplasty won’t guarantee she’ll be free from infections either.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:31 pmI forgot to add that her pH is usually around 6 so within the normal range even when she does have an infection. This poor dog has had more problems and the more research I do on recurrent infections the more scared i get, I have read quite a few instances where dogs have infection after infection with increasing antibiotic resistance and there is never a definitive cause found. I suppose that is my worst fear as makes me feel so powerless over everything and after losing my last dog to cancer in January is makes me very, very sad.
April 20th, 2010 at 12:41 pmTara, I am sorry you are having such issues.
Have you done a culture/sensitivity to pinpoint the exact bacteria?
If not this would be my next step. You need to know the type of bacteria to give the proper antibiotic. This way you can nip this in the bud and continue with crancaps to help prevent further infection.
You may not have fully gotten rid of it with the antibiotics used in the past and therefore, the infection keeps rearing its ugly head.
Be sure the vet draws urine from the bladder via needle (cysto) for purest sample for the culture.
Continue with the probiotics during antibiotics - given 2-3 hours away from meds.
The other thing I would question: is the vet retesting after meds to be sure the infection is gone? If so are they waiting 3-5 days after meds are finished? If not you could be getting a false negative and the reason the infection seems to be coming back - because it was not cleared up to begin with.
Patty
April 20th, 2010 at 2:27 pmTara,
What crancaps are you using (mg?) and how many are you giving a day?
April 20th, 2010 at 2:28 pmMy 10 week old pup has an RV and we tested her urine and she has an infection. We are on our 2nd antibiotic now and for the week I’ve been giving her 800mg of crancaps twice a day and I wipe her everytime after she goes pee. She seemed to be doing better until today she is squatting and nothing is coming out again. This is what first caused me to check her for a UTI. I’m just not sure if shes marking her territory or having trouble peeing. She shows no signs of pain and doesnt have any accidents in the house at all. We go back to the vet on wednesday and I suppose I’ll have her checked again but its really killing my bank account with the 40 dollar charge to test her urine everytime. My vet also doesnt seem to be too up to speed on RV’s either, he told me that dogs never grow out of it through heat cycle and that spaying her would fix it.
May 10th, 2010 at 12:53 amHi Ryan,
Please find another vet if they are pushing you to spay prior to first heat. Spaying will absolutely not correct a RV. The first heat cycle will in most cases (depending on the severity of the RV). Your vet obviously has no experience with this. I have had 3 pups correct on first heat and have another in heat now in a pet home that will be checked when cycle is over (all swelling goes down) and I will bet the RV is corrected. There are some RVs that are so severe that they will not correct.
How severe is your pup? Like the pic in my blog? That is not severe IMO.
Make sure your pup is off the antibiotic for at least 3 days before testing urine again so the meds don’t give you a false negative.
I would also purchase the PH strips and test her urine at home weekly as I describe in my blog.
Has your vet done a culture/sensitivity to pinpoint the exact bacteria? She may be on the wrong antibiotic and the reason you see the signs of UTI again.
I would do the C/S (urine via cystosentisis for pure sample), get the right med to clear up this infection so it does not get out of hand, and continue with the crancaps and PH testing for preventative.
Good luck
Patty
May 10th, 2010 at 12:52 pmHer vulva is exactly like the one in the picture I don’t have ph strips but I did have a uti protien and nitrate checker and tried that this morning and it came up negative. I’m not sure if it works on dogs though it is for humans but protein is protein I would think.
May 10th, 2010 at 1:03 pmChecking protein will not tell you if there is a UTI. You can have protein in the urine but that usually means the dog is loosing protein thru the urine. You could have normal PH, specific gravity, color, etc. and still have protein but no UTI.
I have no idea of nitrate.
You need the PH strips to test in order to catch an infection in the very early stages.
May 10th, 2010 at 1:21 pmOkay thank you. Today she is not squatting multiple times anymore. I will get another test done Wednesday. Great blog!
May 10th, 2010 at 4:13 pmRyan, I’m glad you like my blog and hope it helps your pup.
If the vet still finds infection don’t just try another antibiotic. They can reek havoc on the system.
Please discuss the C/S with sample via cysto with the vet so you can get the right med and get rid of the infection this time. And please read about first appointment of the a.m. for the cysto so you are sure she has a full bladder.
Hoping your test Wed is negative.
Also note that the crancaps are best if from fruit concentrate rather than from juice. Not sure where you got your product.
Patty
May 10th, 2010 at 4:22 pmHi -
I ran across your blog after searching for recessed vulva as I have an 11 w/o lab pup who has this. I am concerned about this for a couple reasons:
First we had had her tested for a UTI and it came back negative, the vet recommended putting her on antibiotics anyway because she could have a vaginal infection for UTI…so she is on antibiotics right now. So my issues isn’t with frequent UTI’s (yet - will be doing holstic things to help prevent that) - but more so with trouble housebreaking right now…
We are having other ‘issues’ that I have read can be associated with having a recessed vulva and I was wondering if you have experienced any of these issues with your dogs?
1) she seems to urinate while sleeping - sometimes, not all the time - I have read some posts that say this is a symptom of having a RV - have you ever experienced this with?
2) she seems to go VERY frequently to the bathroom -ex: we’ll take her out to go potty and she does, we’ll bring in her and 5 min later (no exaggeration) she is going on the floor. I’ve read this can also be a symptom because dogs with RV aren’t able to get all the urine out when they go. Again, have you had this trouble?
3) last question related to breeding - do you recommend NOT breeding a dog with RV? Is this a hereditary thing or just something they have and cannot be passed on?
May 17th, 2010 at 9:36 amHi Melissa,
I have never had incontinence while awake or sleeping with a RV. I would suspect a UTI but you said you tested for that and negative.
I have never heard of a RV preventing a dog from fully emptying the bladder. Frequent urination and not emptying the bladder can also be a sign of UTI. If there is pain when urinating they will not fully empty.
RVs are not proven hereditary but some suspect it is. They are very easy to deal with if you know what to look for and get started on holistic prevention right away (around 6 weeks of age) and and continue thru first heat cycle to correct the RV.
If your pup does not have a UTI or other infection I would not want to use antibiotic. Did the vet do a vaginal swab to check for infection? Is there a discharge?
A discharge is often puppy vaginitis which is not a bacteria and antibiotic will not help it.
If you continue with the antibiotic I would get her on a probiotic like I mention in my blog.
Since there is no UTI I would suspect something else causing the leaking while sleeping and the peeing 5 min. after being outside. Have they checked her kidey function?
Patty
May 17th, 2010 at 3:23 pmHi- I have a 14 week old Chesapeake Bay Retriever with a RV. Breeder said she never noticed it (I find that hard to believe-as vet saw it at visit 48 hours after I got the pup at 8 weeks–I’m mad at myself for not noticing it). Two UA’s, a culture and round of antibiotics later, she is still peeing excessively and having pee accidents in the house. I’m not feeling encouraged. I will try the cranberry caps. Is there a canine formula or should I buy from my local health food store? It seems unethical to me for a breeder to charge $1K for a pup and not disclose and/or compensate for something like this.
May 19th, 2010 at 2:03 pmp.s. I forgot to mention that both of my 14 week old CBR’s UA’s showed USG (urine specific gravity)that was very low. First time it was 1.005, 2nd it was 1.010. Any comments on that? Could that be a link to the inverted vulva/vaginitis? Thanks, joan
May 19th, 2010 at 2:05 pmOne more question: so sorry not to get this all out at once. My Chessie’s mother had pyometra. Could that have anything at all to do with UTI’s in my pup? When I questioned the breeder about that she became angry and defensive. My vet said there is unlikely a connection. It just seems very coincidental to me and I am concerned about the RV not being disclosed by the breeder. Thanks.
May 19th, 2010 at 2:40 pmHi Joan,
There is chance that the breeder has never seen a RV and therefore did not notice it.
Don’t blame yourself, if you have never seen one you could not have noticed it in your pup.
If breeder knew about it she should have disclosed it and she should have started pup on crancaps before selling her and given you a bottle to take home. That is what I do.
You can get crancaps at health food stores, just be sure to get fruit concentrate rather than juice and no sugar added.
Specific gravity is not linked to the RV per se. But it is part of the UTI which is most likely caused by the RV.
As for low SG I have never had that. My girls with a clean urinalysis tend to be in normal range or very slightly hi SG
but did find this info:
Taken from: see 3rd. question down.
http://www.vetinfo.com/dogurinary.html
“There is a broad range of urine specific gravity that can be found in any individual urine sample. It is not at all uncommon for the specific gravity to be low when a dog is drinking normally and the sample is taken during the day. Dogs tend to be urinating more frequently during the daytime and there isn’t much need for the body to concentrate urine. If the first urination of the morning, which should be more concentrated, falls into the lower ranges of specific gravity there is more reason to be suspicious of a problem.”
Have you asked the vet about the low SG?
I also found this from Peteducation.com site
“A low specific gravity should be retested to make sure it is a repeatable finding.”
Since your pup went up from 1.005 to 1.10 that would be a good sign I would think. Ask your vet if they can do an in house USG test to see if she is even higher now. A refractometer is used for this test and most vets have them.
A continuos low SG can be an indication of Kidney disease but I doubt that in a young pup unless the kidneys are malformed or not functioning properly from birth.
I had a senior with kidney disease and her SG was usually in normal range.
I am sorry I can’t help more with the SG but I suggest you talk to your vet.
I agree with your vet in that your Chessie’s mother having had pyometra would not have anything at all to do with UTI’s in your pup.
I understand how you feel about the breeder not disclosing the RV but you can get a handle on this if you follow my regime with crancaps and testing urine PH at home. Talk to your vet about this and that you don’t want to keep pumping antibiotic into your pup.
I hope I have answered all your questions. Please keep me posted on how your pup is doing.
Patty
May 19th, 2010 at 3:58 pmWe have an 9 week old lab puppy, Kona….she is amazing and we love her….potty training was not going well, and she was peeing a little bit every 15 minutes…..when we brought hr to the vet and explained that she licks herself a lot, he looked and said that due to the folds of skin she may have surgery someday to fix that.
My question is: Does the first heat cycle always fix the problem? What are the chances that it will not fix the problem?
Please let me know your thoughts…..
She was on the antibiotics and it seemed to be better, for a few days…now she has another one….bringing her back to the vet tomorrow
Please give me your thoughts…..
May 21st, 2010 at 6:54 pmin 90 plus cases the first heat cycle corrects the RV so please do give it time.
Get your pup on the crancaps and test urine ph at home.
Please do not consider the surgery until you have allowed the first heat cycle to see if it will correct.
This is my advise, but please do read other people’s responses to my blog.
If you are still unsure, than email me personally but please wait to spay your RV girl.
Patty
May 21st, 2010 at 9:50 pmLP, we never had a chance to correct Maggie’s “little tucked up vulva” as we didn’t know anything about it until after her spay.
My vote is to follow Patty’s advice. It was a nightmare at first for us, but no UTI’s for a very long time. And, we’re still on the crancaps.
Sending lots of luck to you, Jill
May 25th, 2010 at 8:15 pmGreat to hear Jill.
So glad you are still UTI free.
Patty
May 25th, 2010 at 8:22 pmI have a 10 week old springer with RV and am wondering how many crancaps and probiotics to administer. She is about 14 lbs.
May 26th, 2010 at 7:49 pmHi Lindee,
I would give one crancap of the Progressive product I use. The one that is 420 mg. This is for preventing UTIs.
I would also be checking urine PH as I mention in my blog. If PH is elevated give 2 crancaps daily and retest PH in a week.
The probiotic I would give about 1/4 tspn daily.
May 26th, 2010 at 10:06 pm